I love my MLS (Multiple Listing Service).
They do the right things for their members. And for the general public.
Recently the Metropolitan Indianapolis Board of REALORS (MIBOR) sent one of their own members, Paula Henry, a cease & desist letter basically forcing her to de-index her web site’s home search. This caused much consternation among the more tech savvy real estate agents across the net. We just didn’t get it, and I know many of us sat back and pondered what we’d do if our own Multiple Listing Services decided to pull the rug out from under us.
Today Bob Bemis, the Chief Executive Officer if the Arizona Regional Multiple Listing Service, sent me their position statement on this issue.
It makes me proud to be a member of this MLS.
Below is the statement in its entirety. You can get a PDF copy here.
For Immediate Release:
Arizona MLS Takes Stand on “Scraping” and “Indexing”
RECENT NAR INTERPRETATION CREATES COMPETITVE DISADVANTAGE FOR REALTORS®
PHOENIX, AZ – JUNE 10, 2009 – The Arizona Regional Multiple Listing Service (ARMLS) is taking a stand on a recent National Association of REALTORS® (NAR) ruling on the technical interchangeability of “scraping” and “indexing” as it pertains to display of the IDX Database on the Internet. A recent controversial interpretation issued through the Center for Real Estate Technology (CRT), NAR’s technology arm, advised members that “scraping” and “indexing” are in effect the same practice and represent misappropriation of the IDX Database. ARMLS believes that this ruling places NAR members at a distinct and serious competitive disadvantage.
ARMLS maintains that the CRT opinion does not factor in the end use of the “scraped” and “indexed” listing data. It fails to distinguish between benign and malicious “scraping” and “indexing.” These practices are termed benign if they provide intended benefits to the consumer and the buyers and sellers whom the REALTOR® serves, and are not in conflict with the ARMLS IDX Policy. They are deemed malicious if they utilize the listing data in a manner foreign to the original intent of the REALTOR® and the property owner, and are incompatible with the ARMLS IDX Policy. The practice of “scraping” or “indexing” by search engines for the purpose of displaying or indexing the data for consumer property search, and which ultimately direct the consumer back to its source, is benign, and is in sync with the REALTOR’S® intention when displaying listings on the Internet. When a third party, e.g. a search engine, through “scraping” or “indexing” misappropriates and uses the listing data for purposes not intended by the property owner or REALTOR® , these practices become malicious and should be prohibited. Any interpretation by NAR prohibiting REALTORS® from allowing search engines, such as Google, from benign “scraping” and “indexing” listing data puts the REALTOR® at a distinct competitive disadvantage.
The ARMLS IDX Policy contains the statement that “IDX Brokers must protect the IDX Database from misappropriation by employing reasonable efforts to monitor and prevent “scraping” or other unauthorized accessing, reproduction or use of the IDX Database.” The interpretation of this policy was not intended to discourage dissemination of listing information through search engine indexing or to discourage brokers or their permitted licensees who offer listings from optimizing their listings to achieve higher search engine placement. ARMLS supports and encourages a change in NAR’s interpretation of “scraping” and “indexing” that factors in the results of such activities and removes any competitive disadvantage that NAR’s current opinion creates.
About ARMLS: Arizona Regional Multiple Listing Service is the REALTOR® owned listing service for central Arizona. ARMLS provides services to more than 32,000 brokers and agents of the Phoenix, Scottsdale, West Maricopa, Southeast Valley, and Western Pinal County Associations of REALTORS® and their affiliates. For more information about ARMLS, please visit www.armls.com or contact Bob Bemis, CEO, 130 W. Priest Dr, Suite 101, Tempe, AZ 85281, at bob.bemis@armls.com or 480-303-7224.
This battle isn’t over. That two separate MLS’s can have diametrically opposed interpretations of a policy points to a fundamental flaw in said policy. I’ve been asked to serve on the NAR Multiple Listing Issues and Policies Committee and will do whatever I can to get the language changed and help educate MLS boards so that ALL the MLS’s can issue a statement as crystal clear as ARMLS.
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Great reporting Jay. I have a hunch you were involved in this decision!
MIBOR still doesn’t get it and just today told us they will abide by their previous decision and will make no recommendations for change to our local Board of Directors. We must wait for November.
Jay- you are so right about the battle NOT being over. I can see boards like MIBOR taking a stance against indexing while boards like ARMLS get it.
What is even scarier is many agents who don’t get it. If they don’t get it by November and take a stand for what is right for Realtors, they may not have another chance. They can hide behind “the way it’s always been done” and “you can’t advertise my listings” and soon, they will discover they are too far behind to play catch up.
Galen – I don’t know if Jay was involved in that decision, I was licensed in Arizona and have to say they have the best legal team, contracts to protect agents and clients and obviously much smarter, more techologically advanced leaders who really care about their agents.
Someone please tell me why I left the Valley – maybe it was for this very fight! And fight, I will!
**Paula Henry´s last blog post..Demographic Website for Indianapolis Home Buyers
This is fantastic news. I’m a few days away from starting my real estate career here in Phoenix and I am elated to know that my mls gets it. It’s good company to be a part of.
**Benjamin Ficker´s last blog post..Short Sales vs Foreclosures
Jay, thanks again for you continued support on this…your efforts are greatly appreciated. Diametrically opposes is right…your board is coming out in defense of it’s members on this issue and MIBOR is sticking its head in the sand because our MLS committee thinks the internet is a series of tubes and can’t even begin to grasp the levity of this situation. You board is not even involved in this and they say “Hey…let’s get out in front of this and support our members publicy” meanwhile MIBOR who at the center of this chooses to grab their clubs and go hide in their caves and chooses to make no decision, no public statement, no recommendations, nothing.
It is SO frustrasting dealing with a board like MIBOR when I see ARMLS doing things like this. Dealing with ignorance is quite frustrating.
Great news for Arizona and thanks for keeping the issue out there. Be very interesting to see how CRT-NAR progresses on this.
**tony lazzari, Naperville´s last blog post..Get geeked out — bike season is here
@Galen – I wasn’t involved. We’ve got a very progressive MLS that “gets it”. I let my opinion be known, but ARMLS doesn’t need to hear it.
@Paula – hang in there. I’ll fight by your side.
@Benjamin – Good luck! Passed the test yet?
@Mike – You are more than welcome. That ARMLS gets it makes me lucky. I have a very low tolerance though for backwards thinking and will do my best to help fight for what’s right for everyone. I can’t imagine your frustration…
@Tony – indeed it will be!
I just took the test tonight, and passed both with flying colors. Almost done.
**Benjamin Ficker´s last blog post..Mesa Community Farmer’s Market
This may sound silly, but what exactly does “Scrape” and “Indexing” mean?
It’s not a silly question.
Web Scraping regards the use of an application that processes the HTML of a Web page and extracts or manipulates the content or data from that page converting to another format on another page or website.
Indexing (think the index of a book) is the standard method used to keep track of data on a website so that it can be accessed quickly. In short, it’s a list in which each entry contains the name of an item (data) and its location. Web indexes serve users by helping them locate information using a variety of keywords and gathering similar information under a single topic. Instead of page numbers, web indexes are hypertext-linked directly to the content with in the web site itself.
I bet that clears things up.
**Marc Davison´s last blog post..Real estate technology is headed straight to the small screen
I stood and offered a silent amen for Bob and the Arizona MLS. Clear thinking prevails. Whatever the inherent intent of a policy is, it is still in the hands of man to define, interpret and enforce in a manner that is just for all people. For me, the MIBOR ruling is less about policy and all about the people and their inability to extract what is just for all users as well as the sellers whose home sales are dependent on that ruling.
This should be of no surprise really. This is the human condition. Look at religion. One person believes his God is loving and his brother is convinced that same God wants him to blow up a bus.
**Marc Davison´s last blog post..Real estate technology is headed straight to the small screen
“Dumb Question” –
What Marc said (and it wasn’t a dumb question at all).
To put it another way…
The articles on this blog gets “scraped” all the time. Bad people build software that basically comes here and steals what I wrote. They then post it on their own sites, typically giving me no credit for my work. They hope to use my (and others content) to build up their own sites to generate revenue (typically in the form of ads).
The articles on this blog also get indexed. Search engines send similar software as scrapers. They “read” the articles then use formulas to decide where to place them in the search engine. So when people go to Google, Yahoo, Bing, whatever search engine they chose, they can find information they are looking for. This indexing is good, not evil like scraping.
The issue with home listing data being scraped and indexed is complicated, but in a nutshell, someone misinterpreted the similarities in how scraping and indexing acquires the information from a site. They ARE acquired in very similar ways. But that information is USED in completely different ways — one good, the other bad. Disregarding how the info is actually used seems… well… silly. It’s how it’s used that should matter, not how it’s obtained.
I just stopped by to see all of the “innovating” going on here.
Congratulations, Jay, on the Inman award nomination.
**Kris Berg´s last blog post..The HVCC and the Appraisal Mess
First off Jay congrats on the Inman nomination this year, well deserved.
The fact that Bob has taken this stance doesn’t surprise me at all. Bob is a forward thinking CEO that really does “get it” and in all my dealings with him in the last year or so of Roost being live in the Phoenix market he has been a pleasure to interact with.
I’m thrilled to see that both he and ARMLS have taken this stance!
I was about to ask the same thing? Thanks for answering the question Marc. We are lucky to live in the best state around uh! I love AZ and I too feel lucky to have ARMLS. I also appreciate the comments that are made by Jay. Thanks for all the great daily information Jay.
**Brewer Caldwell´s last blog post..Brewer Caldwell is the BEST
Glad to hear that they made a wise forward thinking decision like that. Many places have policy makers that just do not understand technology or the internet, so they make decisions that they think will cover their backs while they are just frustrating people instead. Great to hear that they made the decision so quickly too. Maybe the rest of the MLS’s in the country will be influenced by this decision.
**Portland Real Estate´s last blog post..Washington Park: NW Portland
I am so glad to hear your MLS has decided that the indexing of listings is OK; I know you will have a long road before you as you help get the REALTOR® board on the same page, but the local MLS is a huge step and can only help the fight.
Here’s to hoping the rest of the MLS boards decide similarly! Surely if enough MLS boards individually are agreeing that indexing listings for search engines is OK and benificial for all, then the NAR will have to listen…I’m so glad you will be there to fight in person for us!
**Leon Blenky-Miami Beach Luxury Homes´s last blog post..Acqualina Condo Hotel In Sunny Isles Beach Presents Great Wine Tasting
I’m really glad you are able to be at the NAR board meeting this fall when they vote on the indexing issue and I’m glad to see more and more local MLS services are deciding search engine indexing is not a bad thing!
Great post.. Thanks for posting this..
ARMLS never did make anyone de-index anything, it was MIBOR that did that. ARMLS supports IDX indexing. Last heard, MIBOR was standing fast on their interpretation and still forcing some to have there IDX pages not indexable.
NAR can’t make a decision at the Board of Directors level until the Conference in November.
There is a work group formed as a subset of the MLS Committee to investigate this and other issues in detail. I’ve been invited to be on that work group, which meets in Chicago at the end of August.