I think the idea by the council is a bad one.

Anything that squeezes business in a bad economy doesn't seem to be a good thing. I am one that is of the opinion that regulations such as this stifle and hurt the free market.

I certainly agree with the point of view of the homeowners who own their private property and have a legitimate right to determine what goes on within the hallows of their property.

I guess the big question is this:

How intrusive or disruptive is an advertisement? What kind of issues for the homeowner is it actually causing? Are the troubles real or imagined?

A point was made above about flyer people who ignore signs such as "no soliciting", "no flyers", and "No Trespassing".

I do feel that in situations such as this........owners should probably have some type of recourse. But, at the same time, I think it's kind of unfair that we can't simply toss it in your mailbox.......due to the fact that we are doing the distribution ourselves and saving the 47 cent mail charge or whatever it is now.

But, if you do a clean method such as that......you get fined postage for each piece of literature you drop into the mailbox as the "inside of it" is considered "federal property".

Hmmm.

**Jon´s last blog post..Flyer Updates coming soon!</abbr></abbr>

I'm torn by this one. I don't want to see us get to the point where we make it so hard for someone to be in business. If you eliminate all marketing these folks will either not make it or be forced to spend money in other ways that will only raise the cost of their product, which hurts consumers.

The one company that does irritate me is the one who puts their card and a "rock" in a small plastic baggie and toss it into my driveway. That should be dealt with as that is nothing more than littering.

If it didn't work they wouldn't do it. It's really not intrusive to have a flyer in your mailbox or on your door. at least they are not calling you....

I live in the south part of Gilbert and I seriously have to take at least 3 flyers off my door a day. I've gotten to where I don't even look at them and they go straight to my recycling bin. I even have a no solicitation sign, but doesn't seem to matter. I hope they pass this as a resident tired of seeing flyers on my door and in my yard!

Clint -

Relax, take a deep breath.

I do almost entirely "pull" marketing. Not a big fan of push marketing like flyers, mass mailing, non-permission based email/fax etc.

I've got no problem with business owners marketing however they think works best for them. They have a right to do just that.

But you'd think common courtesy and respect would mean that if I have a sign posted on my door that says "no soliciting" and/or "no flyers" that people wouldn't knock on the door or leave a flyer there. Yet some do (no, not everyone).

Leaving a flyer when someone has asked you not to just seems silly. It'd be like calling someone that said "don't call me". I don't understand why people do exactly this.

Should the government step in and ban flyers? No. In fact, I wish they'd stay the hell out of almost everything. The simple fact is, the universe could ban drop flyers and it wouldn't affect my business because I don't use them (we do have flyers at listings for people to take, if they chose to take them).

Personally, I say use whatever works for you. But respect my wishes as your potential customer and don't stick your flyer under my sign that says "No Flyers Please" (which has happened in the past).

Here is a good article on push vs. pull marketing is anyone is interested:
http://www.morebusiness.com/push-vs-pull-marketin...

Jay I would like to know what kind of advertising it is that you do? Email, fax, mass mailings? Or does your business just drop from the sky!? Because no matter how YOU advertise, your bugging the hell out of someone else-just like a flyer is bugging the hell out of you. Deal with it! This is America and we all have a right to be in business and sell as much as we can. If a flyer from a driven motivated business owner or salesperson is bothering you here in America, then move to some socialist *&@#-hole country.

I'm bombarded with emails and faxes daily, and I love it! I scan over all of the faxes that come to me and as many emails as I can that catch my eye. Because I love business, I love spending money, and I love motivated, driven people that are making an effort daily to make it in this challenging market. Grow up, and quit complaining about something so petty. By the way, the majority of my business comes from flyers, and I hear on a regular basis how happy the home owner was that they found it because they have been thinking about my service for quite some time and didn't know where to go.

Sorry I didn't respond, I missed Stefanie's comment.

Please be aware, I'm not anti-flyer or anti-small business. Heck, I *am* a small businessman.

Personally, i don't use flyers (any more). When I did, I respected people's wishes, and if they had a "no posting" or "no solicitation" sign on their door, I didn't place a flyer on their door. Unfortunately, there are many out there that totally ignore these signs. (I'm not saying everyone does, but MANY do ignore them).

It's probably not the governments place to say what people can and can not do with respect to advertising in this manner. It would be nice if everyone respected each others wishes and didn't post flyers where they weren't welcome. Sadly, a few bad apples spoil it for everyone -- which is what leads to these sort of "investigations".

Of note: I posted this almost eight months ago. I haven't heard anything on it since. I can't find anything on what this subcommittee determined.

I just can't figure out why people have a problem with door and car flyers...

The people that argue about putting a ban on flyers are the reason we send our work overseas... If small businesses in America can't advertise there doors will close. Let me ask everyone, do you like calling India for your computer tech support? Do you like the fact that when you buy a computer, it was made overseas? If a company like mine can't get their name out there, then a company like Ridge-Tech Computers would have to close it's doors! I understand that the older generation only goes to the phone book when they need something, but have you ever priced an ad in the phone book? It's crazy! I do plan on getting an ad in the phone book, but to be able to afford 500 dollars per month, I'll need to get my name out there with Flyers. And to the person that commented about not placing a flyer on a door that says, "No Flyers", or "No Soliciting". Trust me I would never place a flyer on those doors. So you see that putting a ban on flyers would hurt America so bad. We send enough money out of this country to do the work that used to be done here. So the next time you see a flyer on your door, or your car. Think about the company that is trying to get you to see their name. Sure throw it away if you don't want it, but you should at least see what they're trying to show you. By not even reading the flyer is just being dumb and blind to your surroundings.

Rich

I forgot to address the statement-

True, and am I not free to keep my home and yard free of someone else’s advertising?

Are you free to stop direct mail? Are you free to stop unsolicited faxes? Are you free to stop soliciting emails or phone calls? Are you free to stop people from asking you to buy whatever... Are you free to stop MLM people from bugging you about joing the next biggest thing that is going to make everyone rich? :)

Its non-stop any way you look at it! All I am asking is to look outside the box and consider all the good things flyer delivery has to offer.

The only reason I stated white americans is because we are accused on a daily basis of using illegals or non english speaking people. I could care less about there race, what is important is there class. My maiden name was Jeter and I was married to a Serrano... I am in no way a racist!

I can tell you that in most cities if there is a sign up stating NO FLyers, the delivery company (any of them) will not leave a flyer. That is if they read english. Our goal is to make our customers phone ring not to irritate the home owner. We do NOT fall under no soliciting but we do fall under No Flyers.

I hate people knocking on my door trying to sell me something or someone cold calling me on the phone, however, I do respect that they are trying to make a living, so I deal with it.

Some of the most successful Real Estate agents and Mortgage Companies thank me on a daily basis for the service I provide. They know how much money they could be spending on their advertising (42 cents per piece) and getting half the results.

Now that I have addressed the racist comment, I'd like to respond to a few of Stefanie's other points:

"First this is America, Home of the Free."

True, and am I not free to keep my home and yard free of someone else's advertising?

"AND if you seriously HATE helping the small business owner trying to provide for his family"

*I* never said I HATE helping the small business owner. Heck, I *am* a small business owner!

"then put up a sign on your door stating “no flyers” and you will never receive a flyer from my company again."

Maybe not from your company, but I can assure you that many many people put flyers on doors despite signs. THAT is especially irritating.

Stefanie -

I came *this* close to deleting your comment. But I'm going to let it stand as you make some valid points.

Sadly, your entire argument loses any redeeming quality or value though when you throw in a statement like:

"Someone mentioned teens needed jobs, all of our employee’s are adults, husbands, wives and single adult people who are all white americans." (my emphasis)

What does someone's race/color have to do with ANYTHING?

As the owner of a flyer delivery company and a licensed Real Estate agent, I think you need to consider a few things. First this is America, Home of the Free. Second most small business owners can't afford the other advertising options that are out there. So to take away flyer's would hurt MANY businesses not just mine but carpet cleaners, painters, landscapers, fitness groups, restruants, house cleaners and many many more. This is a business that employee's many people, from graphic designers, printers, paper companies, ink companies, delivery companies, sales people and so on...

Also as a business owner we have helped 5 of our 10 employees off the street. We have given them a home and a job for over a year now. Someone mentioned teens needed jobs, all of our employee's are adults, husbands, wives and single adult people who are all white americans.

People are making a big deal out of a flyer on there front door. Seriously how long does it take to throw it in the trash if your not interested in the service being offered? AND if you seriously HATE helping the small business owner trying to provide for his family, then put up a sign on your door stating "no flyers" and you will never receive a flyer from my company again.

Flyers have become so popular because the MAJORITY of the people like to use small businesses owners, where they get more attention and a better quality job, than by going with a huge company where your only a number.

So the next time you see a flyer on your door or a flyer delivery person walking down your street, why dont you think about all the good things we offer as a whole to our community.

We're not allowed to put fliers at people's doors or in their mailboxes. You could get fined. I think the town actually claims ownership of the mailbox..disallowing small businesses to do that. I know they do it other places as its been suggested to me..NC for instance. Its more costly to mail them, but I do it regularly, because in my opinion, thats how you get listings.

I've just printed 1000 flyers for my website / service and I had planned on placing them on the windshields of the cars parked at one of our shopping complex's. I do know that I've never got mad at someone leaving something on my door or my car, It's only a little advertising, every company has to do it. And if they deal on the flyer is worth reading then I keep it.

It's also a great way to get your name out there, even if someone gets upset that you left something on their car and they do read the company name, at least they know it. Even if they don't like it, everyone needs computer help one time or another.

Here's a link to the flyer, incase anyone wants to see what I'm talking about. http://www.Ridge-Tech.Net/services.html (Let me know what you think)

And here's the link to the main page to my website.
http://www.Ridge-Tech.Net

Mike S - I'm a big 1st Amendment fan (just read some of what I've written here..), and I am not a big fan of the government injecting more rules.

But, I also enjoy my private property and don't appreciate people leaving garbage all over my front porch, garage door, driveway and under the windshield wiper of my car parked in MY driveway. Should I also not be allowed the freedom to not have people deposit their "advertising" on my front porch? (and a "no soliciting" sign does not work).

This is a very anti-1st Amendment approach. What will be next? The problem is when you disown one idea you begin to disown yourself and your own rights and freedoms. Sure I don't like door hangers, but restricting freedom of speech and dissemination of innocuous information is completely American. The problem you guys have is with the 1st Amendment, not with door hangers. May I recommend China? They are free from such nuisances.

blog is improving daily- -www.genuinechris.com is the one I want people to add. I'm kind of waiting till I have a good body of work to really promote it (5 comments a day is all I'm doing).

I personally would love to see a ban on door hangers as well as all the signs at the intersections in Albuquerque. I don't remember seeing to much of this in Scottsdale or Mesa and it's been too long since I was in Gilbert but I am sure it must be a problem if they are discussing it. - Ashley

Hey Chris, if it's working for you (and it seems to be) then there is nothing wrong with that!

I don't know if they are considering having the ban on apartments or not (I don't think *they* know, this task force is very new.) I know one of the Councilmen on the committee from my days on the Human Resource Commission and know he'll do a very good job looking at all aspects of it.

I've always felt that the "apartment renter to home buyer" market was largely untapped.

Nice blog! If I may offer one suggestion, have a prominent RSS feed button

I too hope that flyers and doorhangers are banned in Gilbert. Nothing but an inconvenience...

Chris, lets do the math... 1,000 flyers per week x 52 weeks = 52000 flyers X $0.10 per flyer = $5200.

3 hours per week x 50 weeks = 150 hours

Return from 20 deals x $8,000 per deal = $160,000

Time required to sell 20 homes X 15 hours per home = 300 hours

My point here was it was not going to be cost effective to continue this method of advertising. After closer analysis, itseems very effective. Good for you!!!

I am not unhappy to say that I put out about 1k fliers a week; this is done mostly to renters in apartment complexes. I will probably have 22-25 closings from this--so I will continue to do it. Takes 3-4 hours to do this every week, and I desperately wish it didn't return so much, because my ego can't take it.

I think the idea by the council is a bad one.

Anything that squeezes business in a bad economy doesn't seem to be a good thing. I am one that is of the opinion that regulations such as this stifle and hurt the free market.

I certainly agree with the point of view of the homeowners who own their private property and have a legitimate right to determine what goes on within the hallows of their property.

I guess the big question is this:

How intrusive or disruptive is an advertisement? What kind of issues for the homeowner is it actually causing? Are the troubles real or imagined?

A point was made above about flyer people who ignore signs such as "no soliciting", "no flyers", and "No Trespassing".

I do feel that in situations such as this........owners should probably have some type of recourse. But, at the same time, I think it's kind of unfair that we can't simply toss it in your mailbox.......due to the fact that we are doing the distribution ourselves and saving the 47 cent mail charge or whatever it is now.

But, if you do a clean method such as that......you get fined postage for each piece of literature you drop into the mailbox as the "inside of it" is considered "federal property".

Hmmm.

**Jonu00c2u00b4s last blog post..Flyer Updates coming soon!</abbr></abbr>

I'm torn by this one. I don't want to see us get to the point where we make it so hard for someone to be in business. If you eliminate all marketing these folks will either not make it or be forced to spend money in other ways that will only raise the cost of their product, which hurts consumers.

The one company that does irritate me is the one who puts their card and a "rock" in a small plastic baggie and toss it into my driveway. That should be dealt with as that is nothing more than littering.

If it didn't work they wouldn't do it. It's really not intrusive to have a flyer in your mailbox or on your door. at least they are not calling you....

I live in the south part of Gilbert and I seriously have to take at least 3 flyers off my door a day. I've gotten to where I don't even look at them and they go straight to my recycling bin. I even have a no solicitation sign, but doesn't seem to matter. I hope they pass this as a resident tired of seeing flyers on my door and in my yard!

Clint -

Relax, take a deep breath.

I do almost entirely "pull" marketing. Not a big fan of push marketing like flyers, mass mailing, non-permission based email/fax etc.

I've got no problem with business owners marketing however they think works best for them. They have a right to do just that.

But you'd think common courtesy and respect would mean that if I have a sign posted on my door that says "no soliciting" and/or "no flyers" that people wouldn't knock on the door or leave a flyer there. Yet some do (no, not everyone).

Leaving a flyer when someone has asked you not to just seems silly. It'd be like calling someone that said "don't call me". I don't understand why people do exactly this.

Should the government step in and ban flyers? No. In fact, I wish they'd stay the hell out of almost everything. The simple fact is, the universe could ban drop flyers and it wouldn't affect my business because I don't use them (we do have flyers at listings for people to take, if they chose to take them).

Personally, I say use whatever works for you. But respect my wishes as your potential customer and don't stick your flyer under my sign that says "No Flyers Please" (which has happened in the past).

Here is a good article on push vs. pull marketing is anyone is interested:
http://www.morebusiness.com/push-vs-pull-marketin...

Jay I would like to know what kind of advertising it is that you do? Email, fax, mass mailings? Or does your business just drop from the sky!? Because no matter how YOU advertise, your bugging the hell out of someone else-just like a flyer is bugging the hell out of you. Deal with it! This is America and we all have a right to be in business and sell as much as we can. If a flyer from a driven motivated business owner or salesperson is bothering you here in America, then move to some socialist *&@#-hole country.

I'm bombarded with emails and faxes daily, and I love it! I scan over all of the faxes that come to me and as many emails as I can that catch my eye. Because I love business, I love spending money, and I love motivated, driven people that are making an effort daily to make it in this challenging market. Grow up, and quit complaining about something so petty. By the way, the majority of my business comes from flyers, and I hear on a regular basis how happy the home owner was that they found it because they have been thinking about my service for quite some time and didn't know where to go.

Sorry I didn't respond, I missed Stefanie's comment.

Please be aware, I'm not anti-flyer or anti-small business. Heck, I *am* a small businessman.

Personally, i don't use flyers (any more). When I did, I respected people's wishes, and if they had a "no posting" or "no solicitation" sign on their door, I didn't place a flyer on their door. Unfortunately, there are many out there that totally ignore these signs. (I'm not saying everyone does, but MANY do ignore them).

It's probably not the governments place to say what people can and can not do with respect to advertising in this manner. It would be nice if everyone respected each others wishes and didn't post flyers where they weren't welcome. Sadly, a few bad apples spoil it for everyone -- which is what leads to these sort of "investigations".

Of note: I posted this almost eight months ago. I haven't heard anything on it since. I can't find anything on what this subcommittee determined.

no response from Jay..well spoken stefanie!!

I just can't figure out why people have a problem with door and car flyers...

The people that argue about putting a ban on flyers are the reason we send our work overseas... If small businesses in America can't advertise there doors will close. Let me ask everyone, do you like calling India for your computer tech support? Do you like the fact that when you buy a computer, it was made overseas? If a company like mine can't get their name out there, then a company like Ridge-Tech Computers would have to close it's doors! I understand that the older generation only goes to the phone book when they need something, but have you ever priced an ad in the phone book? It's crazy! I do plan on getting an ad in the phone book, but to be able to afford 500 dollars per month, I'll need to get my name out there with Flyers. And to the person that commented about not placing a flyer on a door that says, "No Flyers", or "No Soliciting". Trust me I would never place a flyer on those doors. So you see that putting a ban on flyers would hurt America so bad. We send enough money out of this country to do the work that used to be done here. So the next time you see a flyer on your door, or your car. Think about the company that is trying to get you to see their name. Sure throw it away if you don't want it, but you should at least see what they're trying to show you. By not even reading the flyer is just being dumb and blind to your surroundings.

Rich

I forgot to address the statement-

True, and am I not free to keep my home and yard free of someone elseu00e2u0080u0099s advertising?

Are you free to stop direct mail? Are you free to stop unsolicited faxes? Are you free to stop soliciting emails or phone calls? Are you free to stop people from asking you to buy whatever... Are you free to stop MLM people from bugging you about joing the next biggest thing that is going to make everyone rich? :)

Its non-stop any way you look at it! All I am asking is to look outside the box and consider all the good things flyer delivery has to offer.

The only reason I stated white americans is because we are accused on a daily basis of using illegals or non english speaking people. I could care less about there race, what is important is there class. My maiden name was Jeter and I was married to a Serrano... I am in no way a racist!

I can tell you that in most cities if there is a sign up stating NO FLyers, the delivery company (any of them) will not leave a flyer. That is if they read english. Our goal is to make our customers phone ring not to irritate the home owner. We do NOT fall under no soliciting but we do fall under No Flyers.

I hate people knocking on my door trying to sell me something or someone cold calling me on the phone, however, I do respect that they are trying to make a living, so I deal with it.

Some of the most successful Real Estate agents and Mortgage Companies thank me on a daily basis for the service I provide. They know how much money they could be spending on their advertising (42 cents per piece) and getting half the results.

Now that I have addressed the racist comment, I'd like to respond to a few of Stefanie's other points:

"First this is America, Home of the Free."

True, and am I not free to keep my home and yard free of someone else's advertising?

"AND if you seriously HATE helping the small business owner trying to provide for his family"

*I* never said I HATE helping the small business owner. Heck, I *am* a small business owner!

"then put up a sign on your door stating u00e2u0080u009cno flyersu00e2u0080u009d and you will never receive a flyer from my company again."

Maybe not from your company, but I can assure you that many many people put flyers on doors despite signs. THAT is especially irritating.

Stefanie -

I came *this* close to deleting your comment. But I'm going to let it stand as you make some valid points.

Sadly, your entire argument loses any redeeming quality or value though when you throw in a statement like:

"Someone mentioned teens needed jobs, all of our employeeu00e2u0080u0099s are adults, husbands, wives and single adult people who are all white americans." (my emphasis)

What does someone's race/color have to do with ANYTHING?

As the owner of a flyer delivery company and a licensed Real Estate agent, I think you need to consider a few things. First this is America, Home of the Free. Second most small business owners can't afford the other advertising options that are out there. So to take away flyer's would hurt MANY businesses not just mine but carpet cleaners, painters, landscapers, fitness groups, restruants, house cleaners and many many more. This is a business that employee's many people, from graphic designers, printers, paper companies, ink companies, delivery companies, sales people and so on...

Also as a business owner we have helped 5 of our 10 employees off the street. We have given them a home and a job for over a year now. Someone mentioned teens needed jobs, all of our employee's are adults, husbands, wives and single adult people who are all white americans.

People are making a big deal out of a flyer on there front door. Seriously how long does it take to throw it in the trash if your not interested in the service being offered? AND if you seriously HATE helping the small business owner trying to provide for his family, then put up a sign on your door stating "no flyers" and you will never receive a flyer from my company again.

Flyers have become so popular because the MAJORITY of the people like to use small businesses owners, where they get more attention and a better quality job, than by going with a huge company where your only a number.

So the next time you see a flyer on your door or a flyer delivery person walking down your street, why dont you think about all the good things we offer as a whole to our community.

We're not allowed to put fliers at people's doors or in their mailboxes. You could get fined. I think the town actually claims ownership of the mailbox..disallowing small businesses to do that. I know they do it other places as its been suggested to me..NC for instance. Its more costly to mail them, but I do it regularly, because in my opinion, thats how you get listings.

I've just printed 1000 flyers for my website / service and I had planned on placing them on the windshields of the cars parked at one of our shopping complex's. I do know that I've never got mad at someone leaving something on my door or my car, It's only a little advertising, every company has to do it. And if they deal on the flyer is worth reading then I keep it.

It's also a great way to get your name out there, even if someone gets upset that you left something on their car and they do read the company name, at least they know it. Even if they don't like it, everyone needs computer help one time or another.

Here's a link to the flyer, incase anyone wants to see what I'm talking about. http://www.Ridge-Tech.Net/services.html (Let me know what you think)

And here's the link to the main page to my website.
http://www.Ridge-Tech.Net

Mike S - I'm a big 1st Amendment fan (just read some of what I've written here..), and I am not a big fan of the government injecting more rules.

But, I also enjoy my private property and don't appreciate people leaving garbage all over my front porch, garage door, driveway and under the windshield wiper of my car parked in MY driveway. Should I also not be allowed the freedom to not have people deposit their "advertising" on my front porch? (and a "no soliciting" sign does not work).

This is a very anti-1st Amendment approach. What will be next? The problem is when you disown one idea you begin to disown yourself and your own rights and freedoms. Sure I don't like door hangers, but restricting freedom of speech and dissemination of innocuous information is completely American. The problem you guys have is with the 1st Amendment, not with door hangers. May I recommend China? They are free from such nuisances.

blog is improving daily- -www.genuinechris.com is the one I want people to add. I'm kind of waiting till I have a good body of work to really promote it (5 comments a day is all I'm doing).

I personally would love to see a ban on door hangers as well as all the signs at the intersections in Albuquerque. I don't remember seeing to much of this in Scottsdale or Mesa and it's been too long since I was in Gilbert but I am sure it must be a problem if they are discussing it. - Ashley

Hey Chris, if it's working for you (and it seems to be) then there is nothing wrong with that!

I don't know if they are considering having the ban on apartments or not (I don't think *they* know, this task force is very new.) I know one of the Councilmen on the committee from my days on the Human Resource Commission and know he'll do a very good job looking at all aspects of it.

I've always felt that the "apartment renter to home buyer" market was largely untapped.

Nice blog! If I may offer one suggestion, have a prominent RSS feed button

I too hope that flyers and doorhangers are banned in Gilbert. Nothing but an inconvenience...

Chris, lets do the math... 1,000 flyers per week x 52 weeks = 52000 flyers X $0.10 per flyer = $5200.

3 hours per week x 50 weeks = 150 hours

Return from 20 deals x $8,000 per deal = $160,000

Time required to sell 20 homes X 15 hours per home = 300 hours

My point here was it was not going to be cost effective to continue this method of advertising. After closer analysis, itseems very effective. Good for you!!!

I am not unhappy to say that I put out about 1k fliers a week; this is done mostly to renters in apartment complexes. I will probably have 22-25 closings from this--so I will continue to do it. Takes 3-4 hours to do this every week, and I desperately wish it didn't return so much, because my ego can't take it.