From Friday’s East Valley Tribune comes the story of Gilbert resident Heather Gray, who is “donating” her home to a charity to give away in a raffle.
I put “donate” in quotes because this doesn’t really seem like a charitable donation to me.
The plan is to sell $100 raffle tickets, ostensibly to help out what seems like a very worthwhile charity, the Murray Grey Foundation of Phoenix.
According to the Tribune, the organizers hope to get 5,000 people to donate $100 each — giving some lucky winner a 1 in 5000 shot at winning a 2200 square foot Gilbert home appraised a few months ago for “about $280,000”.
Of the $500,000 the raffle will produce, $350,000 will go to pay off Gray’s home. And some credit cards and student loans. The remaining $150,000 will go to the Murray Grey Foundation.
So, a full 70% of this raffles intake does not benefit the charity at all. It benefits Ms. Gray. It keeps her from having a foreclosure on her credit report, and most remarkably to me, helps her pay off some credit cards and student loans.
In the article, Gray is quoted as saying, “I’m not looking for any profit. I just hope to get my bills paid.”
Not making a profit? You’re asking people to donate money to a charity that won’t get 70% of the donations so you can pay off a house, some credit cards, and a student loan. In other words, you’re asking people to bail you out of financial trouble.
70 cents of every dollar donated goes to pay for your home, whatever you bought on those credit cards, and for your education. If that’s not profiting from this, I don’t know what is.
I applaud the creativity behind this —it’s different — but please don’t say you aren’t looking for a profit. You may not wind up with cash in your pocket, but having $350,000 of debt wiped out is a profit, no matter how you sugar-coat it.
I betcha the IRS considers it a profit. . .
Curiously, the web site that has been set up for this project, WantACleanSlate.com, makes no mention that I can find of Ms. Gray also having her credit cards and student loans paid off. No mention that 70% of the funds collected do not ever reach the charity. I would think that anyone who stumbles across her site would find that little tid-bit of interest.
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Wow. The creativity of the plot almost surpasses the audacity of it. Good post, and neat that we can include our twittentities when we comment!
Oh, that website makes me cringe with that voice. hopefully they get the turnout but only a few purchase the raffle tickets.
**Jason Sandquist´s last blog post..St. Paul Condos and Lofts | St. Paul Urban Living
This is the 2nd time this week I’ve heard a story like this. The other is here in CA. The difference is that they weren’t hiding behind charity …
If I remember correctly, theirs is a $500k+ home that they haven’t been able to sell so “instead of selling to to one person, they’ll sell it to several”
Hey, more power to ‘em … In this e-bay-using lottery-playing society of ours it may not be a bad idea.
That is pretty creative. I would say more power to you. Why not spend $100 for a chance.
I’ve seen lots of people comment on “audacity” of the project. Just shows pure jealousy if you ask me!! I read that she helped develop concept so more power to her! Helps save her neighborhood from foreclosure hit, gives average people like me a chance to win a house to sell or rent when I couldn’t afford to otherwise and most importantly, gets exposure for a worthwhile charity that helps our military families. Don’t spread “hater attitude” because you wish you’d thought of the same… And be glad you’re not having to think of something like this for yourself.
Investor in AZ -
I believe I said it was creative. The problem I have with it is twofold:
1) Nowhere on her site does she disclose that she’s also getting her credit cards and student loans paid off. In my opinion, this is deceitful. Why hide this fact? Maybe because if more people realized that she is getting 70% of every dollar donated they’d be less likely to donate?
2) She claims she isn’t in it to make a profit, nor does she want a hand out. It *is* a profit, and it *is* a hand out. If she would call it like it is and not hide behind doing it for charity, I think a lot more people would be inclined to accept it.
Jay~ Understand where you’re coming from. Trib article didn’t do any favors for sure. Talking numbers never does. From what I gathered from all I’ve seen/read, (they’ve been on tv and radio too lately), if they don’t reach target, they can’t give home away so she still has to deal with bank etc. but Foundation has tons of exposure and donations for much needed cause. Who knows, maybe they’ll raise a million and charity gets everything above her debt payoff. Either way, I’m glad this group is getting press. I hadn’t heard of them before but think it’s great cause.
Investor – I agree that the Murray Grey Foundation is a great cause. I’d never heard of them either. My Dad’s a career Army guy, so I grew up “in the military” and have the utmost respect for those who serve — including the service Heather Gray had in the Air Force and Air National Guard.
Hi Jay – Doug Heddings in NYC has followed a couple of raffles. You would think these would be an easy way to get out of a mortgage, but not so. Here’s a link to his last blog post on this topic – interesting reading. http://www.truegotham.com/archives/market-insight-the-sad-truth-about-house-raffles.html
**Bruce Lemieux´s last blog post..Darnestown real estate year-end review
Wow, I’ve got to hand it to her for thinking this up and actually pursuing it. I agree with you though, don’t say you’re not in it for profit if you’re using 70% of the proceeds to pay off debt. Now if the home was owned free and clear and 100% of the proceeds went to charity, that would be a different story.
Well, I can’t say it is an original idea. I can say it is illegal here in NJ.
This actually came up several years ago and the state that the home being raffle in had laws against raffles, and they had to return all collected money. Not sure what the laws are in Arizona, but she may want to check just to be sure.
**Tina´s last blog post..The Cobb Energy Performing Arts Centre: Showcasing and Supporting Atlanta?s Performing Arts
What happens when she doesn’t sell enough tickets to pay off the loan and assorted bills?
**Dan Connolly -Atlanta Real Estate Guide´s last blog post..Disclosure: What the seller DOESN’T have to tell you in Georgia
here is another one I stumbled across on twitter; http://www.fiftydollarhouse.com
**Jason Sandquist´s last blog post..St. Paul Condos and Lofts | St. Paul Urban Living
I agree that this is a pretty creative way to do it and also that the way it is presented by the seller is kind of misleading. I will be interested to see how this one turns out though.
I remember reading an article a while ago where someone was doing something similar. They required that people write an essay and pay an entrance fee, with the winner getting the house. I can’t remember the exact details, but it was a similar kind of raffle scheme.
I’m with you Jay, this doesn’t quite seem on the level. If it were clearly and openly stated where the proceeds were going then it would be a case of raffle buyer be warned. However that does not seem to be the case. If I bought a ticket and later found out that the bulk of the raffle sales went to payoff a home loan and debt of Ms. Gray I wouldn’t be happy. It seems like misrepresentation and I am surprised that the Murray Grey Foundation allowed their name to be used in such a way.
I agree totally!! These people are a bunch of scammers. Things like this it was makes people a little leery about giving to help out legitimate causes.
If they were upfront about what they were doing and stated that you would be able to get a home for $100, (kind of like a lottery or something) that would be okay
On another note: Obama visited our neighborhood.
I wish you all a happy new year and a productive 2009!!
I think because you get $500 in gas/groceries from the Foundation, you’re making a donation to the cause and as a bonus get entered into drawing. It’s not a raffle – the man on the phone was very clear about that when I used that term. Since its not a lottery issue then I think its ok in AZ. If they were selling tix and didn’t reach goal, they’d have to return. Man on phone said if they don’t reach goal, Foundation has accepted all the donations but woman has to deal with bank and debt herself. I can see why being a military focused group they’d try this program for awareness. She’s a vet so guess it made sense.
Every now and then a genius will come up with the idea of raffling off a home he can’t sell. That’s clearly illegal in Arizona. The State of Arizona frowns upon people creating their own personal lottery (and competing with the State’s lottery monopoly).
There are, however, exceptions for charities and indeed some charity lotteries have become very big business, indeed.
**John Wake´s last blog post..Latest Phoenix Home Price Index
Wow, you are absolutely right! The creativity is great… but how DECEITFUL can one be by also paying off their own bills? Shady if you ask me…
Being a military vet myself, I find it incorrigible the E. Valley rag would write this story as presented. It’s really a slap in the face of military folks who “represent” need. To actually be considered “novel” or “fast thinking” is to this contributor’s eye nothing more then a scam.
Perhaps I’m not creative enough to come with schemes to have others pay off my debts – as “investor” put it I must be jealous. Hello, if you’re a real estate investor you’re like a quarter inch above a snake in this economy and perhaps better “bone up” on Humanity 101. If I’m not missing my assumption (pardon me if I am…) this cat profits on the misfortunes of others and reinforces “snakeness” by supporting this scheme. People like “investor” are the same people who drove the RE market up, only to chase profit when it plummets. Now that’s the true meaning of American capitalism!
I guess we can’t all be as bright as others, but I for one plan on riding this economic wave out vs. getting others to bail me out under the guise of being a bottle blond with cleavage asking for a handout.
Wasn’t THAT fun? lol
Jay, I have to agree with you-the concept is deceitful unless she fully discloses to those buying the raffles that they are not only saving her home from foreclosure, but paying off all her debt as well. I shake my head at her for veiling her personal gain with a charity. It is a shame she cant let all the money go to the charity and take on the responsibility of her debts.
At least she is saving another mortgage from foreclosure and helping someone else get a home, even if it is a bit shady of her to hide her personal benefit behind a charity
It’s amazing to me how negative people are being toward a veteran of our Armed Forces and how NO ONE is talking about the cause and what Murray Grey does for our military. I think everyone who is so unhappy with the “evil scam” that’s going on should donate and opt out of the drawing. Our military need your help. Let’s talk about that for a while.
Investor in AZ-I would have to say the cause is a lack of personal responsibility on Heather Grey’s part. It is no one’s fault but her own that she has credit card dept, school loan debt and got upside down on her home. Though it is a shame so much credit was handed to her when she obviously can’t afford it, there has to be a point where it is HER responsibility to manage her money and to realize for herself what she can afford and what she can’t. Also, I don’t think any one is calling it an “evil scam” for her to find a way to support a military charity while getting out from her home foreclosure; however, I think a lot of people are disappointed in the questionable way she has also found to pay off debt that has nothing to do with a bad home loan deal and everything to do with irresponsible spending.
**Leon Belenky-One Bal Harbour´s last blog post..Terra Beachside Villas – A Break from Tradition
Personally, I have no problem with what she’s doing, I just have a problem with the way it’s being done … You have to dig quite a bit into the web site before realizing how the proceeds are being split and the front page comes across as the whole thing being done for the charity.
If she can sell enough tickets to dig herself out of the hole, more power to her. I just hope the funds that are being collected are being placed into an escrow account so that if enough tickets are not sold to cover the debt the money can be refunded to the ticket holders.
She is very creative indeed, if it works out for her she will have her mortgage and some debts paid off. She wont have a home anymore, but was it really hers anyway?
In the current market she would probably be in negative equity, so being able to walk away from it all without any debts and without a foreclosure mark on her credit file would be a great achievement.
good luck to her!
**dave so´s last blog post..Chinese New Year 2009
For a little more, will Ms. Gray come with the house?
But anyone who donates WILL get something…$500 gift certificate for gas or groceries…says it can be used nation wide….from the foundation.
Absolutely makes me sick! She scammed the air force out of a massive education and I have to wonder what she did during her 8 years that have earned her the title of veteran?? What was her AFSC, student? 33 year old owning a $350K home? How many 33 year olds can afford a home of that value. A pure scam artist and an organization using uniformed personnel to put money in the pockets of the greedy. What a shame!
Needed to come back and add a comment. Tuition debt? Uncle Sam paid for her school, and books, and paid her to be away from some work center to attend the school. I really am curious what her job was when she earned the VET status after her really tough 8 year career in the most soft of the services.
I am surprised few read into the offer the part about paying for her debts with the money. This seemed clear to me when I read about it.
It is a good chance to buy a nice home for a low price even with the other factors concidered.
Sounds sheisty but if you think about it.. what’s the difference if she makes a little profit. In a better market, she would be making profit by selling her home the “old fashioned” way. She should clearly disclose, however, that not all of the money will benefit the charity.
This did turn into a full scam. She says they didn’t sell enough tickets so she’s just keeping the money and sending you some coupons.
Total scam. They say that they did not sell enough tickets so they just kept our donation. They offer, as a consolation, a $25 voucher if you send in receipts. I have sent them in for 4 months. I am still waiting for my voucher. Oh by the way the company that was to send the voucher is bankrupt. But wait Murray Grey has sent me new voucher code so that I can send in more receipts, once I pay $9.95 to register with a new company. I do feel sorry for the military people who get involved with these vultures.
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Betty
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Anything the head of marketing at Murray Grey is into is going to be grey. He is a scammer