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Apr

2007

In the Eyes of the Arizona Board of Appraisal, Zillow Stands Alone

Posted by Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy as Phoenix Real Estate, Real Estate, Real Estate Tech Stuff

As mentioned here and elsewhere, the Arizona Board of Appraisal (AZBoA) has issued cease and desist letters to Zillow.com, claiming they can not offer online property valuation estimates without an appraisers license.

I questioned why all the other sites offering similar estimates weren't included in the AZBoAs lunacy. My calls and emails to the AZBoA went unanswered.

Apparently, print reporters can get a response from Deborah Pearson, director of the Arizona Board of Appraisal.

From today's Arizona Republic:

"The Board of Appraisals has not found any other online entities that are violating the state law, said Pearson, the board's director."

Huh. That just defies all logic.

Go to Zillow.com and you are presented with an area to enter an address. Click "Go", and you'll get a "Zestimate" — an approximate valuation of your home. This is illegal according to the AZBoA.

Go to RealEstateABC.com and you are presented with an area to enter an address. Click "Search", and you'll get an "ABC Value" — an approximate valuation of your home. This is perfectly acceptable according to the AZBoA.

Go to BankofAmerica.com, click on "Mortgages", click on "Real Estate Center", click on "Estimate the Value of your Home" and you are presented with an area to enter an address. Click "Submit", and you'll get a window that says, "Find My Home's Value" — containing an approximate valuation of your home. This is perfectly acceptable according to the AZBoA.

And I could go on. And on.

So exactly how is it that the AZBoA has determined that only Zillow, and no other online entity, is violating the state law??? Is there a reasonable explanation of why Zillow's valuation is "illegal" yet none of the other online AVM providers are? Maybe I'm missing something, but for the life of me I can't come up with any difference between what Zillow, RealEstateABC and Bank of America are offering.

Interestingly, Devenio, National Property Valuation, and Home Appraisals USA all offer similar AVM services that you have to pay for. This is also perfectly acceptable according to the AZBoA.

Note however, that the Arizona legislature is considering SB1291 on Monday. This bill has already passed the State Senate. It provides this definition of an "Appraisal":

1. "Appraisal" or "real estate appraisal" means any of the following:

(a) the act or process of developing an opinion of value.

(b) An opinion of value.

(c) Pertaining to appraising and related functions such as appraisal practice or appraisal services.

And right there in Section 32-3603, Paragraph B it states:

B. No person other than a state licensed or state certified appraiser may receive a fee for a real estate appraisal or an appraisal review of real property in this state.

Hmmmm…. Zillow doesn't receive a fee for Zestimates. The three mentioned above do. Looks like if this bill passes, the AZBoA will need to warm up the printer and fire off some more cease and desist letters.

The AZBoA claims Zillow is offering an appraisal. It says Zillow can't do that without an appraiser's license. Yet Home APPRAISALS USA can say this on their site: "Don't pay an appraiser 300+ dollars for a certified appraisal when we will provide you with the same information they use to determine your property's value — for only $29.95."

Zillow says this about Zestimates: "The Zestimate™ home valuation is Zillow's estimated market value, computed using a proprietary formula. It is not an appraisal. It is a starting point in determining a home's value." (my emphasis)

But the Arizona Board of Appraisal, in their infinite wisdom, proclaims that Zillow is in violation of the law. HomeAppraisalsUSA however is just peachy when it comes to their services.

If you live in Arizona, you just have to love this use of your tax dollars…

Technorati Tags: Zillow, Arizona Board of Appraisal

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Potentially Related Posts on Phoenix Real Estate Guy:

More on SB1291, Zillow, AZ Board of Appraisal and Big Brother

Arizona Board of Appraisal Tells Zillow to Cease and Desist

SB1291 Finally Signed by the Governor

20 Responses

Arizona Republic: Realtors side with Zillow.com | BloodhoundBlog: National real estate marketing and technology weblog | There's always something to howl about...

April 22nd, 2007 at 12:42 am
1

[...] Further notice: Jay Thompson: “In the Eyes of the Arizona Board of Appraisal, Zillow Stands Alone” [...]
Athol Kay

April 22nd, 2007 at 1:54 pm
2

Yeah it’s madness at work here really. It’s going to completely backfire on the appraisers too. If people didn’t know about Zillow in AZ before this, they will know about it now.

The appraisers are going the right way to do one very very bad thing… stop the public from visiting a website they like. The fallout could be nasty.

LOL how has the sub-prime stuff been playing out in AZ? Not sure now is a good time to call names and point fingers if I was in appraisals.
Zillow News Hits the Republic | Phoenix Arizona Real Estate - Dalton’s Arizona Homes Blog

April 22nd, 2007 at 3:06 pm
3

[...] not going to go into this in depth as both Greg and Jay already have done so, but it appears some at the Republic have woken up to the reality that there [...]
BIG scott

April 22nd, 2007 at 9:18 pm
4

I know a lot of realtors should be happy to hear about this.

I work for Wallhogs and we just began making Wallhogs for some realtors to use for their advertising and marketing. Is this something that would work in your industry? You’ve got my email now, let me know if this is something that you’d be interested in hearing more about. I can show you some examples and explain anything that needs explaining.

Thanks,
Scott at Wallhogs
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy

April 22nd, 2007 at 9:27 pm
5

BIG Scott -

Why in the world would Realtors be happy to hear about this?

And I guess I’m not creative enough to see why big giant vinyl stickers would be good for marketing. Maybe I could stick on on wall of a listing? Have it say. “CALL JAY TO BUY THIS HOUSE NOW!”

Somehow I suspect the sellers wouldn’t see that as a positive…
Brian

April 23rd, 2007 at 9:57 am
6

Great points. It is interesting. Zillow has been a household name that I here many people claim to use…or now have used. This is just another example of how the state organizations never cease to amaze me with with their ridiculous logic.
jf.sellsius

April 23rd, 2007 at 1:11 pm
7

It seems like selective enforcement. The way the Arizona law is written, you and I would be considered appraisers if we gave an opinion of value. Under the Arizona law an appraisal is “an opinion of value”. The law is ill-written in my legal opinion. I believe AVM values are clearly not meant to be appraisals as that term of art is used nor in the legal sense.

Here is the link to the C&D letters, one of which quotes the law.
http://www.workingre.com/worki.....zillow.pdf

Is it the heat or lack of humidity which causes this?
Athol Kay

April 23rd, 2007 at 2:06 pm
8

Well spotted JF.

It would seem that a CMA by any real estate agent would clearly fall under that description of giving “an opinion of value”.

Will the board also be sending cease and desist letters to all the residential brokerages?
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy

April 23rd, 2007 at 2:29 pm
9

There is a line in the proposed legislation that “exempts” real estate agents from all the nonsense.

In other words, we’ll still be able to do CMAs… for now.
Athol Kay

April 23rd, 2007 at 3:43 pm
10

Really that makes no sense at all though. How does a lesser qualification exempt you from the requirement of having a higher one?

Assuming that having an appraisal license is so vital to creating an opinion of value. Why are real estate agents allowed to perform a CMA, something beyond the scope of our licenses, without a licensed appraiser viewing and signing off on it.

It’s kind of like saying only doctors can write scripts for medications unless they are a nurse and aren’t charging for it. It’s completely bizarre.

If my CMA number is badly wrong, can I be sued for it? After all its not like I am a licensed appraiser or anything. I believe pre-licensing class spent about 1 hour on CMA’s. Thats hardly expert training.

Zillows errors are public knowledge, but I’m sure plenty of agents produce equally laughable CMA numbers. You just need to look at some of the overpriced properties and see agents mentally cashing commission checks and buying open house ads in newspapers to know that they are clueless about market value.

The only difference between a CMA and an appraisal is that you can use one to get a mortgage approved. It’s not like you can use a zestimate to get a mortgage approved. I don’t really see much difference between a zestimate and a CMA to be honest.
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy

April 23rd, 2007 at 5:27 pm
11

“Really that makes no sense at all though. How does a lesser qualification exempt you from the requirement of having a higher one?”

Welcome to my nightmare. NONE of it makes any sense. About the only way one can make sense of it is if you step back and say, “Hmmm, *what if* someone got a bug up their ass and decided to outlaw Zillow, and Zillow only, from providing property valuation estimates? How would they go about outlawing Zillow?”

This absurd action being taken by the AZBoA and the Arizona legislature appears to be attempting to do just that. It’s mind-numbingly stupid. It’s really (to me) beyond comprehension.

If you try to interpret the legislation literally, it appears that it will also make it illegal for two neighbors to stand on their driveway and discuss the value of their homes. Or laugh at what the guy down the street is listed at. Of course that would be completely unenforceable, but that’s the way it reads…
Athol Kay

April 23rd, 2007 at 5:52 pm
12

Agree Jay. It’s nothing but a Black Ops Legislation attempt.
More on SB1291, Zillow, AZ Board of Appraisal and Big Brother at The Phoenix Real Estate Guy

April 23rd, 2007 at 8:44 pm
13

[...] mentioned here and there over the past few days has been amended — with some common sense for a change. Greg [...]
BIG scott

April 23rd, 2007 at 8:53 pm
14

Jay, first off, sorry if I confused you. I was saying that realtors would be happy to hear the news about zillow since zillow’s numbers are always off from the numbers that realtors are trying to use (or at least they were when I was shopping for my home in vegas).

With regards to the Wallhogs being used by realtors for marketing and advertising- it’s creative, it’s unique and it’s also a novelty item for your clients to better remember you (and refer you) by. Certainly, a Wallhog on the wall with your professional information will stand out amongst the plain, ordinary business cards that will be all over the counter.
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy

April 23rd, 2007 at 9:13 pm
15

BIG Scott -

No problem, I’d easily and readily confused…

As for Zillow, be sure to see the latest post. I LIKE Zillow, and I want them to stay around — whether their Zestimates are good, bad or indifferent.

And a wallhog would indeed stand out. I need to put on my creative hat and ponder this a bit more…..

Thanks for visiting!
BIG scott

April 23rd, 2007 at 9:25 pm
16

No problem Jay. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to let me know. I also did a blog post on our Wallhogs blog which may help to explain a bit more-

http://www.wallhogs-media.com/.....-business/

And, about you liking Zillow, that’s great. I remember one of the agents that was helping me say how she did not like Zillow and that their numbers (zestimates) were incorrect and misleading. I, personally, have nothing against Zillow; it’s a shame that Zillow is being punished but yet others, with similar services, aren’t.
Joel McDonald

April 24th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
17

Long time lurker, first time poster…

This is a great thread. In our Colorado Market, we’ve struggled with the wildly random “zestimates”. Often, they’re surprisingly accurate, but when they’re off, they can be off by as much as 15%. To further complicate things, it’s hard to identify without a good bit of diligence whether they’re 10% high or 10% low, and the instant home evaluation almost seems to create more work than just doing an old-fashioned CMA.

Although we belive in Automation, it needs to be flexible enough to adapt to necessary changes and with Zillow — so much of their algorithm is “behind the curtain” that it’s hard to identify what changes need to be made. For this reason, we developed an evaluation tool to help our agents brainstorm interactively with clients about the value of their home.

If you’d like to check it out, feel free. With a few exceptions, we feel that its principles can be applied in any market:
http://www.automatedhomefinder.com/appraisal
Athol Kay

April 24th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
18

Well lets be honest about CMA’s here too. I often say a CMA stands for Could Mean Anything. It’s all on the comps you pull. Honestly any agent with half a brain can make a CMA turn out +/- 15% on whatever fair market value is. Just pull what comps you want until it comes out what you want it to.

For me the real CMA number is just a gut feeling after I do the math and see the house. It’s about knowing the market and having a educated… well… guess.
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy

April 24th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
19

Joel - welcome, thanks for commenting! Interesting eval tool. I don’t know the laws in Colorado, but if you were here, having the word “appraisal” in it could wind up getting you in a little trouble. Probably worth confirming it’s OK in CO.

Athol - as always, your commentary is spot on!
J.R. Colorado

March 21st, 2008 at 12:27 pm
20

Athol, I’m glad you said this:
“Just pull what comps you want until it comes out what you want it to.” Because the Internet is making it easier and easier for anyone to pull comps. I’m no expert, and I’m certainly no realtor, but it was easy as pie for me to pull comps myself from a Denver neighborhood or Denver zip code (here if you want to look http://www.cohomefinder.com/br.....-codes.htm), and start drawing conclusions about values.