Fellow Phoenix area real estate blogger Steve Belt had a great post today about “opting out” of Trulia Voices.
For those not aware, Trulia Voices is a web based “Q&A” area where ostensibly anyone — agents, buyers, sellers, lenders, the curious — can post questions which are then open to being answered by, in theory, someone qualified to answer.
The problem as Steve outlines (as have I and others, particularly yet another Phoenix real estate blogger Jonthan Dalton) is that Voices has a “point system” that ranks agents based on the number of answers they provide — apparently with zero regard to the quality of said answer. This ranking systems leads to a feeding frenzy amongst real estate professionals as they submit answer after answer in the hopes of climbing the ladder to be anointed “The Best” voice.
So what you get is some agent from Maine that most likely can’t find Gilbert, Arizona on a map answering a question specific to the Gilbert real estate market.
Voices is full of, “Call me I can help!” answers, or “Ask your Realtor for specifics” — which is fundamentally a worthless answer for a “consumer” seeking help.
Steve said in his post:
In response, I’ve decided I can no longer associate myself with Trulia Voices. I look at it as an example of guilt by association. If I blindly continue to ignore the problem, in effect I am part of the problem, not the solution.
. . .
So I’ve decided the best solution for me is to opt out. I’m not going to answer questions from Trulia users at Trulia Voices any longer. If I find a question I like, that I want to discuss, I’ll discuss it here. I suppose you could say, I’m on strike from Trulia Voices.
Unfortunately, I’ll be joining Steve on the Voices picket line. Sad, because it had such potential as a conduit for folks with real estate questions to get answers. All Trulia has to do to fix the problem with Voices is eliminate the silly ranking system. Yes, there will be far fewer people answering questions, but who really needs the guy in Long Beach telling the person wondering about Scottsdale schools what to do? End the ranking system, and you’ll find Trulia Voice answers from local agents and experts who know the market and want to help.
Pete Flint, the Founder and CEO of Trulia, commented on this blogs “Why Trulia Voices Drives me Crazy!” with:
. . . However now there has been a significant increase in usage and a wide spectrum in the quality of answers, we are working on rethinking this and building out a better way to rank contributors . . .
Well Pete, it’s been just over two months since that comment and if anything it’s gotten worse on Voices. I’ll just sit out until when/if something really changes…
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{ 21 comments… read them below or add one }
Jonathan Dalton 10.31.07 at 2:07 pm
Welcome to the dark side.
Steve Belt 10.31.07 at 4:09 pm
Jay, I’m curious how many more will jump on this, now that you’ve gotten involved.
Also, I’m sending a quick email to Trulia’s PR department to let them know that there are at least a few like minded agents that want to see change now, and are speaking through a silent voice until it happens.
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy 10.31.07 at 4:22 pm
Steve - I was just in an email exchange about a differnet matter with the Trulia VP of Industry Development. I let them know about our posts. Will be interesting to see if any Trulian (Truliaite?) stops by and comments.
I *really* like Trulia. Said so many times right here. But Voices has a problem that needs to be fixed. And soon or it’s going to just fade away into oblivion. Or at least the usefulness will fade away…
Shailesh 10.31.07 at 4:34 pm
I think a points model based on quantity is flawed. Why not ask the person who asked rate the answer. Make this harsh too. If your answer got a one star (give the person answering negative points) or something like that. That’s a much better way to build quality. But there isn’t money in quality is there? You need quantity - such and such many people are on such and such site etc….
That is why I’m starting to get a feeling that these type of sites are not interested in quality. They want to ride the social networking wave and cash in by selling to a big shot. Think AR-Move.Com or Microsoft-Facebook.
Michael Price 10.31.07 at 4:39 pm
I just finished a 45 minute long interview with a reporter regarding Web 2.0 and it’s impact on the profession / consumers. When asked, I had to tell her I thought the jury was still out on whether or not wide open social network consumer Q&A’s like Trulia Voices held any promise for the future. I guess after reading this post the answer is still clear as mud.
That said, I think you’ll see Trulia do something to improve the process. Pete Flint is a smart guy and I’m sure he recognizes that the effort is only as good as those that participate in the process.
Lani Anglin-Rosales 10.31.07 at 4:57 pm
points = pseudo involvement
The real estate “specialists” are all going for the gold star… pathetic. I’ve been on the picket line since launch and won’t advise any in our firm to participate until the point system is eliminated. You’re right- this potentially great tool is tainted by retards trying to get points. Sad. Pete seems to listen well, so hopefully if you yell loudly enough, they’ll hear….
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy 10.31.07 at 5:13 pm
Great comments folks!
If you want to see dreck created by a point reward system, you need look no further than ActiveRain (and now Voices).
Don’t get me wrong. There is brilliance in both AR and Voices. But it is overwhelmed by the crap that’s posted in the name of points.
Shailesh, I *think* the questioner can already rank a “best answer” on Trulia. But *anyone* is allowed to give an answer a “thumbs up/down”. And these rankings seem to have no impact on placement in the grand list.
Another issue that Steve and Jonathan have both pointed out is that it appears you also get credit for the volume of not just answers, but questions as well. So you get stoopid questions posed by agents that obviously serve no other purpose than inflating their standings.
Perhaps this point system was necessary in the beginning just to get people involved. I don’t know. It’s funny (or pathetic, I’m not sure which) that people will flock to something they can “win” — or at least get tangible feedback that they are winning. Seems to me that the opportunity to display your expertise, and to help people, and to increase your “web presence” would be enough reward. But apparently not.
I still think that if the rating system were simply eliminated that the more tech aware agents would still post answers, and ask reasonable questions. Yes, the volume would be reduced, significantly. And maybe Shailesh is right on that aspect — maybe Trulia just wants to flaunt numbers like “x number of participants”, and “an average of y answers per question”.
Damn shame that its evolved to that. I still prefer quality over quantity in almost every aspect of life. I think a lot (most?) people do.
Pete Flint from Trulia.com 10.31.07 at 5:42 pm
All,
Thanks for the comments. We hear you.
I’m stuck in some meetings/travel right now, but I wanted to respond to say we’re listening and I value all your thoughts. We REALLY want to and care about getting this right for the agents and are working on improving the product. Will be back with a longer comment when I get a moment free.
Thanks for your patience.
Back soon…
Pete
rob aubrey 10.31.07 at 6:21 pm
I tend to agree with the quality is poor.
I have been there and the questions are very vague and hard to actually give in depth answers to.
Although many of Real-A-Tor has given lengthy responses on things they cannot possibly know.
I would try to stick to things that weren’t as market sensitive and jump in those, but your right it is a call me thing. Oh well, count me on the picket line.
Pete Flint from Trulia.com 10.31.07 at 6:45 pm
Hello again,
I just posted this on Steve’s blog - pasting below for you all:
———-
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the great comments and thoughts.
We hear you. I agree that things are not perfect today.
To give you some background. When we launched Trulia Voices in May this year we didn’t want to build in many “rules” around what the moderation tools (thumbs up etc) did at the very beginning, only that they track your participation. As the user contributions have grown that has to change.
Our engineers are working on a system that has the following components:
- enables open participation (which is a very important part of Trulia Voices).
- encourages positive and valuable contributions (not spam) by clever interpretation of user flags and other factors
- scales with large volumes of participation
- considers the natural incentives of the different participants in the community
As you can imagine this is not easy to do and requires some pretty advanced algorithms to get it right. The good thing is now we have lots and lots of data and users to help us build the system that can do this.
I can’t give a date, as we are working on many things right now and it is pretty complex, but we’re on it.
What we’re building is pretty clever (we hope) and it will take into account the thumbs ups and downs, those “out of state” answers, poor answers and a number of other factors. Our goal is to eliminate all gaming using advanced algorithms and encourage the best Voices to heard loud and clear.
We believe there is a strong consumer need in helping people understand the complex issues around real estate and helping them connect with the RIGHT agent for them.
To that end, anyone answering lots questions poorly today will be adversely affected and those that answer questions excellently will be rewarded. Retroactively.
Hence, I ask you to stick with us. It is clearly in Trulia’s interest to let the cream rise to the top and that is the principle by which we are building the system.
I hope that helps.
More soon
Pete
rob aubrey 10.31.07 at 6:59 pm
Hi Pete,
How about some basic things like location mandatory when asking questions.
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy 10.31.07 at 9:00 pm
Thanks for sharing Pete. I guess maybe I’m oversimplifying it, or maybe I just don’t get it, but it seems rather than some elaborate system and advanced algorithms it would be far simpler to just not have a ranking system.
There are many examples of very successful Internet forums where people come to ask questions and experts answer them. And there are no ranking and rating systems in place.
Does Trulia feel that unless they rank and rate no one will participate?
Steve Belt 10.31.07 at 9:16 pm
We did get a pretty thorough response from as high up as it gets at Trulia.
PS- Did you get many trick or treaters at your house? We’ve never had any, so we always go to a different neighborhood.
Paula Henry 11.01.07 at 6:08 am
Jay - It seems you have the voice to make a difference! Point systems always bring out the worst in people when they are not properly monitored. Why would I waste my time asking a question so another agent can answer for points. The consumer is not ignorant!
Patrick 11.01.07 at 7:04 am
Good Morning Jay,Jonthan and Steve,
I think there should have been a vote, before a strike was called.
Growing up in a union family I am not accustom to crossing picket lines. You have made this a very difficult decission.
To top it off it is Nov 1st, do you know how many expired listings I should be waking up right now.
I made this Video Oct 28th, regarding Trulia`s ranking system.
http://www.mydeo.com/videorequ.....CID=138751
I do totally agree that there are several agents that just answer questions to improve their ranking. I have asked questions myself, and wondered if the agents responding ever read the question.
I myself have answered many questions outside of Arizona, because I felt that I was being helpful, or these people just needed to hear my opinion. Lately, some people just need a good slap.
One thing is true about Trulia. When answering a question about Arizona. I better be right, because I am competing with the likes of Dalton, Belt, and Thompson.
It is my Opinion that your protest would be better waged on the pages of Trulia, calling out every B.S. answer for what it is in Arizona, in the only unique way the three of you can.
Laurie Manny 11.01.07 at 10:14 am
As one of the original Trulia Voices members I dropped off of Trulia Voices early on when the “Gaming” began. I liked Trulia Voices a lot when it began and saw real potential value in it. Trulia has a highly established consumer presence and presented a viable means to connect directly with the shopping consumer. It is my sincere hope that Trulia can pull this back together as it had real possibilities.
Scoot 11.01.07 at 2:45 pm
I have never used trulia, but I have used zillow, and I would just like either of them to make it a local forum, where if someone wanted to ask a question of a national audience they could, but the default would be local.
If trulia does this I would gladly use them. If zillow steps up I’ll stay. But that’s what I want, otherwise I won’t use either. Just b/c I have more important things to do.
I only say this in a constructive way, and if the desire is there to make it something people will use, you have my two cents.
Gary Smith 11.01.07 at 5:51 pm
Jay,
I wholeheartedly agree. Some people give totally inappropriate ( and sometimes scary ) answers to questions.
I like the Nacho Blogger
Teresa Boardman 11.02.07 at 4:51 am
Point system, no point system, either way the best response it to not use Trulia voices. With out out contribution, there are no voices, forcing consumers to come to our local blogs and ask us questions directly. Real estate is local.
Dining Room Set 11.02.07 at 10:09 am
I think that the position that you have taken is right at this point of time. I have no doubt that something good will come out of all the comments made on this post.
Chris Lengquist 11.08.07 at 4:28 pm
Love Trulia. Hate what you are talking about. I haven’t answered an email in quite some time. It’s like the Active Rain Q&A section. Nothing I enjoy more than seeing Tennessee real estate agents answering questions about Kansas real estate. Do they have a Kansas license? Are they at least familiar with Kansas real estate law? Nope. Just want the points.