Oy, can’t believe I just used a Latin word in the title…
But that’s really neither here nor there.
In an article posted Sunday I discussed “silly counter offers”. The esteemed John Wake left this comment:
“It also sounds like you have a great client… and the seller and/or listing agent will be a PITA the whole way.”
For those not familiar with the term “PITA”, it’s “net lingo” for “Pain In The Ass”.
And as is the norm, John was spot-on in his assessment (on both parts).
Here’s a recap….
Our very qualified buyers make an offer on a very nice home.
The specifics of the offer aren’t all that important. It was a strong offer, by a strong buyer (as evidenced by the amount down, earnest money, closing time line, their loan parameters, and the fact they don’t need to sell an existing home).
Some things the buyers asked for:
* They wanted a closing date of July 31.
* They needed a 15 day inspection period as they will be out of town for several days (the “typical” inspection period is 10 days).
* They used electronic signatures (which as discussed Sunday, are perfectly legal).
The sellers countered:
* They wanted a closing date of July 30. Yes, one day sooner. The reason, as quoted by the listing agent? “I don’t like closing on Thursdays or Fridays”. (wonder if the seller really cares?)
* They nixed the 15 day inspection period, insisting on 10 days — this despite knowing the buyers would be out of town for a portion of those 10 days.
* They did apparently relent on the electronic signatures. A concession!
There were other items countered. We were a little apart on price, but close enough we felt we could work it out.
So our buyers re-countered on price, and again asked for a 15 day inspection period.
Next the seller re-re-countered. They were now OK with the purchase price — and let’s face it, that is (or should be) 99% of the battle.
But here’s where it went beyond ridiculous.
They countered the closing date again (after we’d agreed on their silly “no Thursday closings” rule). They, in a seemingly random act, pulled the close of escrow date in by two weeks.
WTF? Can you say PITA? The Buyers did. They said “Adiós”.
I so want to ask the sellers:
Dear Sellers,
Why, pray tell, does the COE date now need to be 2 weeks earlier, when a mere 24 hours ago you’d already dictated what date you wanted???
And for whatever reason, you again refused to allow a 15 day inspection period. Hmmmm…. you know that 10 days doesn’t work for the buyer. All they need is a few more days. And you say, “Nope”. Are you just being difficult, or are you afraid a little extra time might uncover a problem?
And now you want additional earnest money, with some of it made non-refundable after the inspection period (you know, the one you won’t allow five extra days for).
You were this close to going under contract. And you blew it. There are 43,158 single-family homes listed for sale in the Phoenix MLS. We’ll find another one.
Sellers, you don’t have to concede to every buyer demand. But think about at least cooperating. Look at what the impact to your bottom line is. Work with the people that are telling you they want to buy your home.
Don’t be silly.
.
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Leif Swanson 06.17.08 at 1:46 pm
Jay, I’m sorry your buyers had to go through that mess. The sellers may come to realize they made a mistake. When you get the call from their agent, and you will, you’ll be able to tell them your clients found another home. On the other hand, the sellers could have been burned before and are extremely nervous (e.g., quicker close, nonrefundable earnest deposit); perhaps a call to the listing agent will reveal the true story and maybe the sellers will calm down, esp. since your buyers have such positive attributes. Best wishes.
Scottsdale Homes 06.17.08 at 3:50 pm
Good for you Jay! Feels good when your clients ‘walk’, doesn’t it! Same thing happened to us, but ours was simply over the use of electronic signatures… SILLY indeed!
Not sure if you read my comment on this post of yours:
http://www.phoenixrealestategu.....ffers/1058
“I’m glad you brought this to light Jay. One of the agents on my team, Barry Cox, recently had nearly the exact same thing happen to him, only he got his through a phone call from the listing agent.
L/A “Hi Barry, my broker won’t accept this contract”
BC “What do you mean, he won’t accept it? Both buyer and seller have…”
L/A “My broker needs ‘live’ signatures on all of our contracts.” Yatta, yatta, yatta…
Luckily for us, this is a buyer’s market and the buyer was so frustrated that he withdrew the offer (after getting it in writting from the borker that they will not accept electronic signatures) and he wrote on the next of 5 homes he had choosen while visiting here last.
Talk about sticking it in the brokers face! I wonder what the sellers now think of their listing company… the one that cost them a the sale of their home?
Matt Pellerin - Realtor
Phoenix Homes Team Leader”
Carole Cohen 06.17.08 at 4:42 pm
Latin and yiddish in same post
My bp was going up as I read this. What a waste of effort on their part. It never makes any sense to me when one part (or both) in a contract process seem to feel like they have to win things; to me the best deals are reached when everyone comes at it like my mother used to say, from a position of respect. Oy is right. I had a client’s deal close but for a minute I was worried because the sellers decided to change terms of what was conveying and the gas grill on an expensive house became an issue. That made no sense either.
People should just listen to you! lol
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy 06.17.08 at 4:51 pm
@Leif I fully expect a call from the listing agent. I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens 2 or 3 weeks from now. We never talked directly to the sellers, but did try to get it straight with the listing agent….
@Matt - I did see that comment. It’s just mind boggling. It’s really not just silly, it’s idiotic.
@Carole - indeed. It was a waste of EVERYONE’S time! (yeah, Latin AND Yiddish in one post. Scary isn’t it?)
Charleston Real Estate Blog 06.17.08 at 4:54 pm
Jay, Carole made the same point as I would have, you’ve obviously been hanging out with JD too long and picked up the lingo. So welcome.
The sellers and their agent should be hung in the town square, don’t they get it? Or don’t they really want to sell so why are they bothering to list their home.
Sellers should not blow a deal over trivial issues like this, their agent should be prepared to resolve those matters.
And what’s with not closing on Thursday, is it mah jong all day
Carole Cohen 06.17.08 at 4:57 pm
I’m glad you asked about the Thursday thingy I wanna know too lol
Paula Henry 06.17.08 at 5:00 pm
“Look at what the impact to your bottom line is. Work with the people that are telling you they want to buy your home.”
I’m not sure sellers understand what the impact will be. The longer they sit on the market - the lower the offers get in a buyers market.
We can’t always predict what our clients reaction will be to certain conditions in a contract - but educating them early on about how buyers are reacting to the current market can go a long way towards helping them make good decisions for themselves.
This seems to be one of those, “we’ll have the last say” type of situation, which backfired.
Good for your client - sellers who act like that will more than likely be difficult thorughout the process.
Jon Griffith 06.17.08 at 5:16 pm
Isn’t it crazy? We’re all in this business to make a living. Buyers are in the business of finding a home, and sellers are in the business of…well, finding a different home. If you have your house for sale and you have a willing buyer, considering the number of homes on the market, it would be wise to work with the other parties to the transaction without pissing and moaning about the little things.
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy 06.17.08 at 5:36 pm
Howard, between you and JD, I don’t stand a chance…
I wish I could explain the Thursday closing thing. The listing agent said, “I don’t like closings on Thursdays or Fridays.” When pressed, we got “I just don’t” and that was that. I don’t get it.
There was a remarkable amount of “I” in the conversation. Not “we”, not “my clients”, “I”.
Paula said: “This seems to be one of those, “we’ll have the last say” type of situation, which backfired. ”
That’s exactly what we sensed. A “power thing” (mainly from the agent). The word is (or should have been) “negotiation”. It’s not about power. I dunno, it kind of felt like he thought we’d just slink away and give him whatever he wanted.
@John - it’s nuts.
Jonathan Blackwell 06.17.08 at 6:33 pm
Absolutely, that sounds like a bad agent as much or more than bad sellers.
I do a lot of renovation loans (that require more time for obvious reasons) and you’d be surprised at the number of agents and sellers that absolutely ignore or refuse my recommendations on contingency period and contract date. Insisting on 10 days when I need 15 days and insisting on 30 when I need 45.
Guess who gets the first angry phone call when the loan isn’t clear to close on day 30.
John Wake 06.17.08 at 8:01 pm
I find the vast majority of Realtors who represent the other party in a transaction are problem-solvers. When problems come up, we work together to see if we can make both of our clients happy. It’s always possible, of course, but that’s the starting point.
A few agents, however, are problem-creators.
I had one recently. It started with repeated low ball offers, a bad sign. Eventually, their offers improved and one was about 1% higher than a competing offer and it was accepted. Not surprisingly, a lot of that 1% was lost due to the buyer’s (read, buyer’s agent’s) unreasonableness during the inspection period and subsequent repairs. I’m sure the listing agent thought he had really stuck it to us.
I was absolutely gleeful when it closed and I found out the buyer had used less than 2% of the “up to 3%” seller contribution toward buyer’s closing costs.
While the buyer’s agent was being a hard ass, he forgot the basics.
Justin McHood 06.17.08 at 8:58 pm
I am curious… was the sellers agent a rookie? No matter — I am willing to bet a diet pepsi that the sellers agent calls you back and you have the option to save your clients 10-15k on the price of the home. Very expensive mistake for the sellers, but happy/happier clients of yours. I’ll be sure to stay tuned for part 2 of this story…
BawldGuy Talking 06.17.08 at 10:40 pm
I’d accuse you of makin’ this whole thing up, but you wouldn’t write fiction this stoopid.
My experience is tellin’ me the agent is the black hat here. I also suspect he’s doing some pretty fair to middlin’ dancing as he explains the sure thing that isn’t any more. Wow. Can you say malpractice?
Joe Peffer 06.18.08 at 9:01 am
Counter Yourself Silly. It’s good for both buyers and sellers to realize that they have the ability to walk away at any time and to then feel free to exercise that ability. The last couple weeks my buyers seem to be a day/hour late in their offers but when they move on to the ‘next’ home, they’ve found something even more to their liking. It’s a big market at the moment.
BTW, my kids all loved that Sesame Street Video. It’s gotten quite a bit of use at our house.
Joseph Bridges 06.18.08 at 9:25 am
Jay,
I always tell my brother that I wish I could work with buying agents who submit offers like the one you described. It always amazes me when agents get in the way of closing a transaction. A great broker friend once said to me “Joey, if a buyer wants to buy and a seller wants to sell get out of the way.”. Sellers who wonder why their home hasn’t sold should look at what they are doing instead of blaming it all on the buyer.
–Joey
Brett Tousley 06.18.08 at 10:13 am
What a shame that this deal fell apart for such inconsequential reasons! Seems to me the LA could have at least called and explained the seller’s reasoning behind their actions.
Looks like the LA received the commission they earned on this one…”0″
Glad you and your buyers were able to move on to a more reasonable situation.
Let us know when you get the call back Jay, I’d love to hear the listing agent’s explanation!
Chris Lengquist 06.18.08 at 12:19 pm
Oh, I’m sure they’ll find a full price offer that does exactly as they say in the next two week so that…. Oh, who am I kidding?
Paradise Valley Homes 06.19.08 at 10:43 pm
Wow Jay, this thread really got some (well deserved) attention!
So, the question now is, have you heard ANYTHING from the L/A since? Have they come-a-crawling back yet? I’m just curious, as I’m sure many others are, to hear some sort of update from you on this “Sill Counter Offer Redux” thread… unless you have so much to write that we’ll be soon seeing a follow up post.
Matt Pellerin - Realtor
John Wake 06.20.08 at 1:05 am
Jay, Where’s blog etiquette at now days on putting keywords in the comment author’s name link text?
http://www.realestatebloglab.c.....shortcut/#
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy 06.20.08 at 9:10 am
@Matt - I’m surprised that the agent hasn’t yet called back. But our buyers have found another home….
@John - It’s pretty much an individual choice. I see the thoughts split about 50/50 — some have a real problem with “keyword names”, some don’t. I prefer to see a real name, but don’t have a problem with a keyword name. Particularly if they add a real name such as Matt did above…
Rick Belben 06.21.08 at 6:04 pm
It had to be a good feeling to be able to walk away. I wonder what the sellers are thinking now?
A colleague of mine had a full price offer on a listing and the seller would not concede on the closing date. It ended up costing the seller 30K when it finally did sell.
Susan 06.22.08 at 7:09 am
Sorry to hear that. Those sellers are fools to lose that offer, wonder if they had the possibility of something else, if its still on the market.
Francy 06.22.08 at 8:30 am
Susan - The property is still available.
I am also happy to say that it did not take long for our clients to locate another great property!