24
Aug
2007
Posted by Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy as Marketing, Real Estate
From the somewhat infamous 60 Minutes / Redfin infomercial came these words:
For realtors, the six percent commission is sacrosanct. It's remained in place, even as the price of homes has quadrupled over the past 25 years.
Yeah, whatever. Commissions are not "sacrosanct" nor are they set at some mythical level. Commissions are negotiable. Period, end of story.
Yesterday I received an email from a local Phoenix real estate agent. It was one of countless streams of marketing blather I receive on a daily basis from my fellow agents. The title of this one caught my attention. It read:
12% Co-broke for the next 12 days
Interesting… for those not aware, or for agents from different parts of the country that may call it something else, a "co-broke" is the portion of the total commission offered to the buyer's agent (technically the broker for the buyer's agent). Many, including 60 Minutes own Lesley Stahl, seem to think the "sacrosanct" commission is 6%. What these folks always seem to fail to realize/accept is the commission is split between the listing agent and the buyer's agent. So with a 6% commission, usually 3% goes the listing agent and 3% goes to the buyer's agent. (Like the total commission, the "commission split" is also NOT sacrosanct. Typically it's split 50/50, but certainly not always.)
So here is a seller who, presumably under the advice of his agent, has increased the commission to the buyer's agent to 12% — for a limited time. If there isn't an accepted offer in escrow by August 31, the co-broke reverts to 4%.
Increasing the co-broke to attract buyer agents isn't anything new or innovative. It's been done since time immemorial. Phoenix area builders have been doing exactly this for quite some time as they struggle to bleed off excess spec home inventory. (Interestingly, many of these are the same builders who cut co-brokes to zero during the boom of two years ago. But that's another story.)
This is the most extreme example I've seen on a residential resale. Increasing the co-broke on this home from 4 to 12% would amount to an increase in the buyers agent commission from $17,996 to $52,998 (assuming a full price offer of $449,900).
Fifty three grand for selling a $450K house is ridiculous. To be blunt, I'd be embarrassed to take that much — and I'd feel like I was ripping my buyers off. In my opinion, the sellers would be much better off reducing the price by that extra $36,000. A brief look shows the house currently priced near the mid-range of comparables. A 36K reduction could place it very well – and provide BUYERS with an incentive to view the home and make offers, as well as provide the SELLERS with a more competitive listing, possibly even inducing a multiple offer situation (which does still happen).
To hell with incentivising the AGENT.
We should be keeping our clients best interests in mind. In an agency relationship, we have a fiduciary duty to our clients. How does accepting a commission check of 12% of the offer price even remotely resemble proper service to the client??
I suspect some slime-ball agent is out there right now, salivating over a 53 grand commission check. It will be interesting to see if this listing agent's tactic results in an accepted offer. I'll be watching and reporting….
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26 Responses
Tom Wolf
August 24th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
1Wow! I’m not a Redfin supporter, but things like this certainly support their position that on the buy side, the agent’s incentive is not always properly aligned with that of the buyer. I can only imagine how many agents are going to be trying to shoehorn their clients into this property. I can hear it now. “I know you folks had your heart set on 5 bedrooms but this 3 bedroom has tons of character.”
Jonathan Dalton
August 24th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
2We’re thinking too much alike … I had the one queued up and just didn’t take the swing.
And Tom - the short answer is more agents than you want to know.
Charleston Real Estate Blog
August 25th, 2007 at 6:55 am
3Jay, great point. We have a small subsection (new construction) in a country club community that has remained mostly unsold for a couple of years while most everything else in the community has sold. I had a client who was going to be looking in the neighborhood and I was stunned when I saw a 12% co-broke offered when I pulled the neighborhood up in the MLS. I still didn’t want to show those homes because I knew why they weren’t selling.
Wouldn’t you guess, while driving around, my buyer said, what’s that indicating these 20 homes and wanted to see them. I brought them in, they didn’t like them either after they saw the interior which was the problem in the first place, bad floor plans and uneven upgrades, some too high end and some too low end all mixed together in one bad looking package.
Here’s the kicker and the point I want to make. The 12% was only going to be offered on a full price offer. So as you and Jonathan said, how many agents are going to sacrifice their clients interests for a big check. Not me but sadly, there will be more than a few.
Real Estate Transparency: Deliver or the Public Will | Phoenix Real Estate and Homes for Sale - Dalton’s Arizona Homes Blog
August 26th, 2007 at 12:02 am
4[...] I’m not even getting into the utterly ridiculous 12% co-brokerage offer that came through the other day - on full-price offers only, of [...]
IndyAgent
August 26th, 2007 at 11:12 am
5Like you, Jay, I would not, could not take 12% commission on a home knowing my client financed it in their monthly payment. I do not understand the agent mentality which prompts one to suggest their client pay such a high commission to the buyers agent. I can only assume it is a tax break as a cost to sell versus reducing the price.
Even then, if a home is overpriced, it is overpriced and my clients are educated enough to know better. If not, I have not competently represented their best interest.
Voting for this week’s People’s Choice Award is open | BloodhoundBlog: Real estate marketing and technology blog | Realtors and real estate, mortgages, lending, investments
August 26th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
6[...] Jay Thompson, The Sacrosanct 6% Commission — How About 12%?! [...]
Lani
August 26th, 2007 at 12:46 pm
7Brilliant, Jay!
Austin Real Estate Guy
August 26th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
8Jay - that is just a bit excessive, isn’t it. I would go for a 7%, offering the buyer’s agent 4%. A seller could live with that and the incentive to show would be high.
B.R.
August 26th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
9Jay, after watching the video you posted the other day, I’m wondering if this is the perception your sellers are left with- throw the farm at the agent/buyer. A Realtor is required to disclose the amount of the commission and you know that more than likely a rebate is coming to the buyer. The approach got the attention of you and now other Realtors. One could argue that this may actually be a smart approach. I wish I could see the broker comments on this listing. Is this just another form of offering to pay all closing costs, and maybe a relocation cost while the agent gets to make his 3%- fair. There are smarter ways to go about things, but I have to say, way to create buzzzzz on a listing.
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy
August 26th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
10BR - the broker comments basically say 12% co-broke if under escrow by 8/31, 4% after that.
No mention of rebate, closing costs, nada.
It’s definitely an attention getter. A price reduction would get lost in a sea of other price reductions (though the astute agent would find it).
My biggest problem is it plays on the greed of some agents. For those so inclined, it would be easy to brush the 12% co-broke under the rug until 3 days before closing when it comes out on the HUD-1. Even then, since it is on the “sellers side” of the HUD-1, it wouldn’t be all difficult for a buyer to gloss right over it.
Seller perception could be playing here. See the video I posted today. We are regularly blasted with doom and gloom in our local market. There are some *wonderful* buying opportunities. Not such a great time to sell though. (although homes do sell every day — often that’s glossed right over by the mainstream media.)
SO far, the listing is still showing “active” in the MLS.
Las Vegas Guy
August 26th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
11I haven’t seen a 12% offered here yet, but several 10% offers have been floating around.
The Odysseus Medal: Keeping pace with a very fast crowd | BloodhoundBlog: Real estate marketing and technology blog | Realtors and real estate, mortgages, lending, investments
August 27th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
12[...] end, there is only one best. The winner of the Odysseus Medal for this week is Jay Thompson, with The Sacrosanct 6% Commission — How About 12%?! I’m a sucker for ethics in real estate, of course, but Jay takes the ethical argument even [...]
The Odysseus Medal at The Phoenix Real Estate Guy
August 27th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
13[...] post, The Sacrosanct 6% Commission — How About 12%?!, was awarded the Odysseus Medal. Considering the competition level, I'm deeply humbled and [...]
MLS-2.com
August 27th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
14Jay, as you say “It’s definitely an attention getter. A price reduction would get lost in a sea of other price reductions (though the astute agent would find it).”
1) we can’t rely on only the astute agents selling the homes - there simply are too few.
2) in this slow market, any buyer shown the home within a few days of the email won’t let his agent get him into contract so quick as to have an offer accepted, but the showings may take an uptick, which is the desired effect.
3) whenever we see something like this, we tell our buyers “disproportionate rebate, come on down!” We treat it as a price reduction (rebating to the buyer) and *still* hammer the seller on price, as this is the signal for motivated seller. We also know there will be little competition at higher or full price from any slimy agent trying to keep the 12% all for himself - he will self-destruct from his own sales pressure.
When representing sellers with this strategy, we’ll make the limited time offer to get teh home back on top of mindshare and people’s desks, and at the same time post on Craiglist an offer for direct to consumer rebate of the full co-broke if a new buyer opts for dual agency. In this case we do double work for the same LA side, but we get it sold!
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy
August 27th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
15MLS-2 (is there an MLS-1?
)
Thanks for the comments!
“1) we can’t rely on only the astute agents selling the homes - there simply are too few.”
Sad isn’t it (but too true).
Agree completely this tactic is a strong “desperate seller” signal. All the more reason for not doing it, don’t you think? IMHO, the listing agent is giving away WAY too much information before a potential buyer even walks up to the front door. Now if I had a buyer interested in a home like this, I’d *love* it for that very reason. And that fact tells me the listing agent is doing his seller a disservice.
I’ll admit this tactic could result in an uptick in showings, but I still think in this case if the price was reduced 36K and the home properly marketed, it would have the same effect on showings, all the while not providing opportunity for the slimeballs (that we both know are out there) and you wouldn’t have the equivalent of a flashing neon sign over the front door saying “I’M DESPERATE TO SELL! WHIP ME AT THE NEGOTIATION TABLE!!”
It just doesn’t sit right with me.
sondra johnson
August 28th, 2007 at 6:23 am
16Question: Was this ‘12%’ listed in the ‘Remarks’ section, where all viewers can see it?
I’m not sure we’re giving the buyer of today enough credit. They’re going to take that 12% figure, deduct the 6%, and figure the difference is ready money available to deduct from the purchase price for a in-contract sale. Any realtor who blithely tried to take the full 12% would be crucified… and that buyer would balk. They are going to feel like they are being ripped off- and go elsewhere for help.
WHAT if this is an incredible marketing ploy? Here’a a scenario: the listing agent and seller have agreed to a ‘true’ 5% total commission (since commission rates are negotiable) for the first 60 days, 6% after that. The seller has accepted a walk-away price that includes a 12% reduction (whether commission or reduction in price). He wants it SOLD.
The 12% comission generates ALL kinds of buzz, attention, outrage, etc…. and the buyers smell a ‘deal’. The agents (the slimy ones) see money floating on the wind, and the GOOD agents see an opportunity to make their 3-4% and have their client improve their negotiating power. Now, it’s a matter of playing the odds…. you’ve got lots of traffic- will you sell in the window of opportunity, and relinquish said money…. or will you sell after, at ’standard’ commission fees with a healthy price reduction? And if the listing agent takes a couple of months to get a sale…. the commission pays for the additional expenses.
Instead of idiocy, this could be genius….
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy
August 28th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
17Sondra asked: “Question: Was this ‘12%’ listed in the ‘Remarks’ section, where all viewers can see it?”
Answer: Nope! It is only available in the “realtor remarks” — which can not be seen by John Q. Public.
I *wish* I had a buyer currently looking in this area / price because we’d both make a killing. Perhaps in that sense, marketing a ridiculous co-broke to Realtors isn’t a bad idea (I wouldn’t go so far as to call it genius though). In this case, the co-broke isn’t public knowledge and appears (to me) to be only focused on the greedy realtors.
Why do I say that? The email message from the listing agent said, “Bring one buyer and take the rest of the year off!”
Sounds like a pure play on greed to me….
Thomas Johnson
August 28th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
18Wow- You Phoenicians must be sales people of a caliber to which I could only aspire in my most delusional fantasies. I have never, in 20 years been able to fold a house three times and shove it down a buyer’s throat to capture bonus compensation. I stand outside the kennel unworthy, unworthy, I say!
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy
August 29th, 2007 at 7:07 am
19Only 3 days left in the “12 DAY SPECIAL OFFER!” and looks like there still isn’t an accepted contract….
Anyone out there ever seen *actual and specific* stats that show (or not) that adding agent incentives actually increases/speeds up home sales?
B.R.
August 29th, 2007 at 7:32 am
20They don’t work, we can’t even search the mls by commission paid and its completely at the bottom of the two page display. I’ve only ever even looked at it to set the co-broke on my own listings.
I did want to add to those who say this is a greed play. Logically, it isn’t. As a Realtor we have to disclose our commissions, and when you made the offer on that house with a 12% co-broke, at least here anyway is at the very top in bold letters of the contract offer. I do not see how an agent would collect on this with greed in mind.
To me, it isn’t marketing to the greed of an agent, its being offered to the greed of a rebate buyer- period. Splitting this with a buyer who is needing or wanting a rebate would satisfy both.
Further, if a buyer comes in on an offer like that, the first thing that would be negotiated would be that fat rebate.
If, as an agent, I’m going to offer a bonus like that, it is likely they were reducing the price and the agent said, lets take an outside the box approach- lets go up on the incentive to sell, this would be more genius than you realize. Builders do this every single day in many parts of the country.
The buzz about this listing is a hat tip to this agent. His clients, and their community is being well served as it is holding up the value of the home and neighborhood.
We’ve practiced this approach for some time when reducing the sales price, we instead increase the bonus offer- pay for closing costs, etc… what is really different here? Nothing- he just went about it “differently.”
Columbus Real Estate
August 29th, 2007 at 8:55 am
21>>To hell with incentivising the AGENT. We should be keeping our clients best interests in mind.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve never understood the agent bonus perspective. Especially here where it’s always in the remarks available to the public. If you can afford to give the bonus, lower the price until it’s at an attractive level. Seller wins, Buyer wins, Agent gets paid for doing their job. Thoughtful post, nice reaction.
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy
August 29th, 2007 at 9:09 am
22BR wrote:
“I did want to add to those who say this is a greed play. Logically, it isn’t. As a Realtor we have to disclose our commissions, and when you made the offer on that house with a 12% co-broke, at least here anyway is at the very top in bold letters of the contract offer. I do not see how an agent would collect on this with greed in mind.”
In Arizona (where this is being done), commission is not revealed AT ALL on the contract offer. In fact, it (legally) CAN’T be discussed in the offer here, as the offer is between buyer and seller, and the commission is a seperate contract between seller and listing
agentbroker.While commissions SHOULD be fully disclosed (IMHO) the fact remains that is can EASILY be hidden from the buyer here. It shows up on the HUD1 that the buyer gets just a few days before close. By that point, it may be too late. I suspect many buyers wouldn’t be willing to breach their contract with a seller over a commission dispute with their agent and they’d go right along with it and close the deal. It’s entirely possible the buyer might not even notice the commission split because it’s listed on the “seller’s side” of the HUD1.
I’d like to point out again that in the email the listing agent sent out to buyer agents, the first line read, “Bring one buyer and take the rest of the year off!”. Greed may not have been his intent, but he’s clearly playing the greed card. If he weren’t, rather than highlight the benefit to the agent, why not take five minutes and outline what the creative agent could do for their buyers with this 12%?
There are something like 40,000 licensed real estate agents in the Phoenix area. I can assure you that MANY will see “12% co-broke” and “Bring one buyer and take the rest of the year off!” and think exactly that — never once considering returning some of that money to the buyer. The *exact* same thing happens every day with new build spec homes. Many builders here are offering 8, 10 and even 12% co-brokes. I’d bet a 12% commission check that the *vast* majority of agents here pocket the huge builder commissions and never blink an eye. Other than a miniscule number of bloggers here (Swann, Dalton, myself) I’ve *never* seen an agent here openly market/discuss returning ridiculous builder co-brokes to the buyer. I’ve *heard* dozens of brokers and agents discuss how much THEY can make on spec homes. That’s only ancedotal evidence, and I’m sure there are some agents “rebating” commissions to buyers. But I’m just as sure far too many do not.
Sorry, I think this agent is playing to greed, pure and simple. I’ve emailed him asking him to comment here. His lack of appearence speaks volumes IMHO.
B.R.
August 29th, 2007 at 9:42 am
23Jay, holy cow. Thank goodness the Code of Ethics requiring you to disclose it- that would appear above and beyond what your license requires. I guess I am saying I would still disclose it.
As for builder incentives, more often than not you end up giving back a lot of that incentive here. As I said earlier, here it’s the first thing going back to the pot when negotiating. We normally with relos give up for moving expences, lease buy-outs and other incentives we use in-house. We also use it in price reductions to qualify, rate buydowns, etc…
It’s to bad that the agent hasn’t spoken up- but you haven’t said the home is under contract so my guess is that there aren’t to many so-called greedy realtors- but in 40k realtors theres bound to be some bad apples.
Jay - The Phoenix Real Estate Guy
August 29th, 2007 at 10:25 am
24I’m FULLY with you on the disclosure thing Benn. Why any agent would risk a buyer seeing something 3 days prior to close is beyond me. I can’t imagine trying to hide something like a 12% co-broke. HOPEFULLY most agents would fully disclose. Sadly, some will not. I simply take the attitude of I’m not hiding ANYTHING from my clients. It’s really much simpler in all of life to tell the truth.
A Commission is Prize Money (?!?) at The Phoenix Real Estate Guy
October 29th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
25[...] I’ve discussed buyer’s agent incentives here before, and my opinion on this is clear — any agent that specifically sets out to show their clients homes with higher buyer agent commissions/bonuses is doing their client a disservice. Your job as a buyer agent is to find your client the right home, at the best price for THEM, not for YOU. Period, end of story. [...]
Cherie
November 18th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
26What a bunch of self righteous blather. It should be a given that an agent would have his or her clients best interests at heart. If a builder or seller is offering a 12% commission and that home meets your client’s needs, budget and desire why should an agent feel he or she is cheating the client? Why is the knee jerk reaction to lower the prices and how low should we go and what effect is that going to have on the market if we continue to drive prices down in to the ground?
Anyone with half a clue knew the real estate market was falsely inflated with investors purchasing rentals at a time when EVERYONE could buy. Who was going to rent from them? How could 1 in 5 Americans purchase 2 or more homes and think saturation was never going to take hold and they could flip them indefinitely? Hmmn? Obviously many of you commenting here helped clients do just that and you helped them facilitate that belief. Were you being fair and having the best interest of your client at heart then because you were only earning a 1-3% co-broke? Did that make it okay?
No it was not okay and now we have the mess we have. So what is really responsible and what really dictates that you have your client’s best interest at heart? A 3% co-broke, is that the defining point? I think not.
Responsible market correction should dictate that the builders need to stabilize pricing and take the high road and realize they have a responsibility to those who have already purchased as well. How does that happen? Well the first step was to reduce prices to a more realistic level without devastating the market entirely. To date we have seen an average of 70K in price reductions. So now the folks who bought last year are on average 70K upside down, for the owner occupant time will balance that out. Markets go up and down in major metro areas it is the nature of beast. Now we must contend with the glut of inventory builders have. What is responsible? Offering increased incentives to the buyers and their agents so they can keep the prices stable and the value up. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 10-12% co-broke and maybe 6% seller paid closing concessions and 25-40K in options incentives to the buyer. The 6% covers closing costs and allows them to buy-down the interest rate if they desire or in some instances they can use 3% as builder grant towards down and 3% for closing costs whatever suits the buyer best. The options credit allows them to get appliances, window treatments, landscaping etc. That is certainly a win to the buyer and for the diligent efforts of the agent researching in advance the best deal for the client as well as finding the right home and location, he or she has earned his or her money.
A responsible agent that understands the market, should appreciate the value to their buyer of the scenario above and communicate that fact to their buyer. It shows that the builder understands prices need to stabilize and also that he is unwilling to completely destroy the values for those who purchased when prices were high. That compromise by the builder should be peace of mind for the buyer. And there is immense value in peace of mind. Why should an agent feel ashamed or as if he is cheating his client for serving his client and looking after what is really important? Now bear in mind it is only a win-win if the home, the price and the location fit your client’s needs, budget and desire. But as professionals we would take our buyer there if that was not already established?
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